GC: I believe if features are sexed, and secondary sex characteristics are innate to a man or a woman, then sex is determined by secondary sex characteristics and the gender essentialism that tras believe in is true. If you disagree, then tell me your reasons

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[–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In most of the human population, secondary sex characteristics are indeed innate, inborn, natural.

Of course, but the point is that you can't judge the sex by them. It isn't defined by the secondary characteristics because those are the things that happen as a result of the primary characteristics. They do usually happen, but if they don't, that doesn't change a person's sex.

I think innate means inborn and essential, like a characteristic is either part of your nature or caused externally. The question of what innate characteristics of a woman would be is different for innate to individual women and innate to the entire sex. Large breasts can be innate to Justine but we can't say they're innate to every woman. Some healthy mature women just have flat chests but XX chromosomes are innate to women

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think innate means inborn and essential, like a characteristic is either part of your nature or caused externally. The question of what innate characteristics of a woman would be is different for innate to individual women and innate to the entire sex.

Just to clarify: The secondary sex characteristics that individual humans might or might not develop during and after puberty are not the same as the essential qualities that determine and define the two human sexes as categories. Secondary sex characteristics are not essential determinants of the two human sexes - male or female. Human fetuses and children all have a sex, and can be sexed, many years before the time when humans develop secondary sex characteristics.

Large breasts can be innate to Justine but we can't say they're innate to every woman. Some healthy mature women just have flat chests but XX chromosomes are innate to women

Agreed. But it's also important to note that many women's breasts tend to vary in size over the course of the menstrual cycle - and over the course of the life cycle, most women's breasts will change dramatically in size due to pregnancy and childbirth, and coz of fluctuations in weight and the aging process. Even women whose breasts are/were usually small tend to have large breasts after giving birth when their/our milk comes in and so long as they/we breastfeed.

Also, girls and women who have their breasts entirely removed due to breast cancer or "gender identity" claims do not become any less female as a result.