BubblyBrush comments on GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant?

GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant?

submitted 3 years ago by BubblyBrush from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun - 3 years ago (6 children)

Here we go again. It would’ve been nice if you’d actually responded to the comments on your other post but whatever.

“The view many trans people have is it's not just men who have penises, but women can have penises, etc too.”

This is incorrect. As many of us explained on your other post.

“Similarly, it's not just women who have vaginas, uteruses, etc,”

Of course not. Girls have them too.

“but men can have those organs and get pregnant, which they call male pregnancy.”

This is false. Again, it was explained in your other post which you neglected to respond to.

“Why can't we say vagina, uterus, ovaries, etc are also male organs and penis, testes, etc are also female organs?”

You can say whatever you want you’ll just be wrong lol.

“Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs?”

Biology. Reproduction. Science. Reality.

Other questions I have: 2) Why is production of sperm considered something only the male is capable of, and pregnancy something only the female is capable of?

Biology. A transman can’t identify their way into sperm production and a transwoman can’t identify his way into pregnancy, likely not even with a uterus transplant. That’s nobody’s fault. That’s just reality. Also- are you aware of what happens to the rest of a female body when they’re pregnant? Like to our internal organs and all? Do you get that a male body would need to be capable of all of those changes?

3) Why would you say male pregnancy is impossible and can't exist?

Probably because it’s literally never happened and the only “men” who have ever successfully endured pregnancy all happened to be transmen, which is to say female and there’s nothing remarkable about this whatsoever?

4) Would it be possible one day with the help of technology for real male sex organs (penises, testes, etc) to be transplanted to females, and for real female sex organs (vaginas, ovaries, wombs, etc) to be transplanted into males? Or would you say that's impossible and can't happen? If you think it's impossible, can you share your reasons why you think that?

Even non sexual organs that are transplanted into a member of the opposite sex are highly likely to be rejected than if the recipient got an organ from a person of the same sex so I’m guessing no. I highly doubt a male body would be capable of adapting to female reproductive organs. I feel like that effort could probably go to more worthwhile causes. It’s hard enough to successfully transplant a uterus into another female. It’s a waste of effort and resources to do so with a male just for validation. And they’d end up feeling less valid once their body rejects it.

5) Another thing, this is a hypothetical question, imagine real male sex organs (penises, testes, etc) are transplanted to females, and function properly, as in the creature is capable of producing sperm. Is this creature a male now? Did this creature go from female to male or not in this scenario and why? What about real female sex organs (vaginas, ovaries, wombs, etc) being transplanted into males, imagine they function properly and the creature is capable of producing eggs. Is this creature female now? Did this creature go from male to female or not in the scenario and why

Is every cell in their body now also the opposite sex? Chromosomes and all of it? Does it even matter? Since this is never going to happen? Are you actually going to respond to anyone on this post or the other one?

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (5 children)

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (4 children)

I didn’t ask why you didn’t respond to me specifically. You didn’t respond to anyone. I don’t act like these questions are jokes, although I do think the answers are obvious and that people who claim to not understand why these answers are obvious never actually provide their own reasoning- likely because they have none. I answered the questions- if you don’t like my tone that’s fine but all I did was answer honestly and even provide links to more gently worded answers that say the same things I said.

The other post does answer all of this. The answers there explain how sex works. So it explains why what you’re asking isn’t possible and doesn’t make sense. I assume you understand how babies are made? I assume you understand the basic differences in female and male anatomy? You understand the basics of menstruation and gestation? And yet you ask questions and create a post that ignores what you surely understand- that’s something I don’t understand. Can you name a person who is not female (I’m not talking about identity or altering their sex characteristics, but a literal born xy penis having male person regardless of personal sense of identity) who has gotten pregnant? Can you name a female (literal xx vagina having female person regardless of personal sense of identity) who produces sperm? You can’t. Because it’s never happened because it cannot happen because that’s not how sex works.

I get that my tone was rude- but it’s increasingly frustrating to have qt posters post things like this and then not engage. It’s hard to believe you posted either of your posts in good faith. You saying that you’re slow makes me think maybe you did come in good faith, until I consider your wording. The way you worded your first post, particularly the end, makes me think one of two things happened. 1. You are “slow” in some capacity and you’ve been manipulated and misguided by tras and maybe think you have to go along with them because “wokeness” or 2. You’re not slow at all but just weren’t prepared to have to reply to any of the clear and well thought out responses you received because there’s no response that can be offered that holds up what you want to believe (to be fair, that may be me projecting what I think about others who have made similar posts).

Maybe you truly believe that these posts are unrelated- but they go hand in hand.

ETA-I have to say I started out much nicer, but my god it’s so frustrating when people (not talking about you, just generally in this and the old sub) refuse to acknowledge basic science and are simultaneously incapable of providing a sensible alternative. It’s like they don’t know their own answers but just cannot accept what is rooted in history, biology, And fact. My tone has sharpened the more I participate. I can usually be kinder when I feel someone is genuinely trying to understand, I honestly did not get that vibe from your posts. At the end of the day, humans are mammals. It just doesn’t make any sense to me that people think that human sex is different from all other mammals. Even plants have males and females. Every thing or being that is sexed is classified as male or female because of criteria they fit or don’t fit. Humans are not an exception to this.

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (3 children)

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (2 children)

“Sorry for leading to any misunderstandings.”

Me too.

“I really thought they were unrelated, because in the other one I asked things like what the definitions of male and female are, and in this one I asked why things like testes, penises, etc are considered male sex organs. And why they can't be considered female sex organs too”

This is why I think these posts are related- the definitions of male and female are sex based. It’s the whole difference between men/boys and women/girls. Yes there are many differences between males and females, but I think it’s fair to say that genitalia is the biggest difference amongst us. If we consider testes, penises, etc female- what then is a female? What’s the point of any definition at all, when the distinction between sexes is erased by saying that these body parts that only develop on male bodies can now be female? I just feel like- even if we say penis and testes are or can be (also- that “can be” we’d be saying that male genitalia is female based solely on identity?) female- we still know that only “people with uterus, cervix, vaginas etc” can get pregnant. So there’s still a distinction and separation in reality, even if we definitively erased any distinction and understanding. If we altered language to allow TW to be considered women and female, and TM to be considered men and male- that does nothing to change the fact that the way sex works with regards to reproductive capacity, health concerns, and physical differences just cannot be erased. We’d just have to find new language to articulate these differences because they will always matter. To me, this creates confusion for 100% of the population just to protect the feelings of 1%. And in the end doesn’t even protect them- because the truth about our sex still exists whether we have the language to discuss it or not.

“I have some learning disabilities, and had a hard time in school. Still have a hard time in uni. I do think I get manipulated easily because of this. That's why I came to this place, I don't want to spend years being confused by the tra logic.”

I apologize. We get posts like this often and it’s almost always someone who has made up their mind and is trying to “gotcha”. I assumed that was you and I was wrong. If I see a post from you again or we engage again I will try to be less blunt and sarcastic. I appreciate that you came here rather than just accepting what tras push on us. I would just say, most people don’t want to not support a marginalized group-it just feels impossible to get behind their demands and beliefs. Many gc people here, myself included, used to be allies ourselves. The more we learned, the less actual logic we found and the more problematic thinking we encountered.

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (1 child)

Thank you for understanding me. I know it's troublesome to explain things to me in a way I can understand, it happens a lot in reality but I'm trying and I also appreciate that you are willing to take the time to come here and answer my questions. I got fed the tra logic for some time, especially on reddit, but I had a mental breakdown after a while because I was confused and didn't know who's telling the truth anymore. I get like that a lot when I can't process information properly and I decided only by coming here to see where the tras are wrong the confusion can go away, I hope it does.

I see now why the posts are related, it's because male and female are defined by genitals too and if we say testes are female or vaginas are male then male and female become meaningless. Did I get it correctly?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

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