Both: what is the source/origin of the claim "trans-womxyn are women"? The DSM-5/icd-11 don't make the claim, I can't find it anywhere within sociology or psychology, not even within queer theory. Is it just a hashtag?

submitted by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That's it? This is a debate sub FYI.

When are you going to finally explain what makes such a benign statement of fact transphobic? Oh that's right, never. No one seems to want answer that question. It's almost as if there is no answer to that question. You do know that trans-womxyn in every culture around the world (that includes cultures more accepting than ours) & throughout history categorise trans-womxyn as either men or third gender, right? Your insular ideology is an exception.

Saying trans-womxyn are women is misogynistic. Why: it's the erasure of women. No one who chants the aforementioned can define 'woman', thereby proving said erasure. The female sex is not a privileged class, but the "cis vs. trans" dynamic sets members of the females sex up as privileged oppressors.

There is also no evidence that trans-womxyn are women, while there is plenty of evidence that they are men: male sex, male socialisation, male privilege. Yours is an ideology of gaps.

The funny thing about this ridiculous idea that the mere implication that trans-womxyn are male is transphobic, is that every TRA must regard themselves as transphobic by their own standards. If you thought trans-womxyn were women you could easily prove it. But you can't, not even to yourself.

Why do trans-womxyn spend so much time training themselves to emulate women? Take trans-women's voices. That's not their genuine voice, it's the voice of a man trying to sound like a woman. That's the opposite of "being your true self".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It’s prima fascia transphobic. It’s the nature of transphobia.

I don’t actually care about third gender classification as long as it’s not lesser. But calling us men is definitionally transphobic. It’s the core root of all transphobia.

The funny thing about this ridiculous idea that the mere implication that trans-womxyn are male is transphobic, is that every TRA must regard themselves as transphobic by their own standards. If you thought trans-womxyn were women you could easily prove it. But you can't, not even to yourself.

That is both untrue and doesn’t follow the argument. Belief doesn’t require proof to exist anyway. I am male but not a man. And that doesn’t require proof because I know it. It’s a semantic question, “proof” isn’t relevant. It’s a language issue.

Why do trans-womxyn spend so much time training themselves to emulate women? Take trans-women's voices. That's not their genuine voice, it's the voice of a man trying to sound like a woman. That's the opposite of "being your true self".

Many reasons. Safety, passing, because masculine voices are grating and disgusting, because hearing those sounds is distressing or induces disassociation, because they simply prefer it, because it feels like how they ought to be. Take your pick.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am male but not a man.

"Saying trans-womxyn are male is the core root of transphobia" – there, do I win?

The differences between a trans-woman & a man are only in the imagination of the individual. What's the difference between trans-womxyn who say they are women & trans-womxyn who say they are men? Ideology is the only difference. Meanwhile there isn't any overlap between trans-womxyn & women, other than everything that men & women have in common.

After a female infant, that was brought up by wolves, identifies as a wolf & has no concept of gender, finally grows up, she is a woman, not a wolf, because 'woman' is just the word for a human who is an adult & female.

You can't prove that trans-womxyn are women, so you say it's transphobic to say otherwise, but you also can't prove that that's transphobic so why on earth should I believe two impossible things with nothing to back either up (other than the vague "but it's the core root though")?

The reason the other side isn't saying that it's transphobic to call trans-womxyn women is because they have evidence on their side. It's from your lack of evidence that you have to lean so heavily on the "transphobia!" crutch.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[M] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't mean to make it personal, but you're not a woman.

I’m not removing this, but I just want to point out that you cannot misgender individual users. You can misgender groups of trans people or publicly known trans people who aren’t present, but please refrain from singling out individual users.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I understand. I removed that sentence, if that's okay.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[M] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks!