GC: Can you debunk every one of the arguments Andrew Carter made in this long thread in response to JK Rowling?

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[–]SnowAssMan 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Yep, every time they argue for trans-women to be included in women's single-sex spaces, like sports & prisons they are indirectly saying that sex is not real.

Not only is sex real, but so is the gendered socialisation that accompanies it, which results in the gendered tendencies, behavioural patterns & overall social existence of a person. This is something nobody seems to acknowledge. This said thing is actually: gender. That's right, despite gender & sex being different, everyone's sex & gender are congruent, the only exceptions being some intersex people & people who were brought up female despite being male due to penile ablation or something similar.

Every trans person whose sex was unambiguous to their parents received the gendered socialisation associated with their sex, not their preferred sex, meaning a trans person's sex is congruent with their gender. Their gendered upbringing ensured that.

[–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not only is sex real, but so is the gendered socialisation that accompanies it, which results in the gendered tendencies, behavioural patterns & overall social existence of a person. This is something nobody seems to acknowledge... despite gender & sex being different, everyone's sex & gender are congruent

Well, being GC, I'm not sure I can agree with you on that, and I'm not even sure what you mean. "gender" is too broad a concept to say everyone is congruent. There are men and women of all different sorts, and certainly many who do not conform to expectations or typical behaviors. Do they share certain underlying socialization? I would say so, but there is still a lot of variance. Do they behave outwardly according to expected norms? definitely not.

The one thing we can be sure is true is the biological distinction - that is not complicated at all, you're one or the other. Exactly how gender works is a minefield like asking about ethics or free will or beauty or any other abstract concept of the human experience. It can seem simple enough but you'll find people disagree on the boundaries and details and can fight over it all day. Sex is like asking if the planet is round or gravity exists. It's just an established fact. We shouldn't be having fights over that.

[–]SnowAssMan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm talking about gender identity. Our gender identity is congruent with our sex, because we live in a gendered culture, our parents are from said culture, they gave us a gendered upbringing. That's why gender exists to begin with.

Studies show that parents give their male infants attention when they whine, scream, grunt etc, but only give female infants that attention if they use words or gentle touches. They also play rougher with male infants & talk more to female ones. This produces two separate cultures. Those cultures are called: gender.

Why do trans-men attend voice therapy? Don't the hormones take care of that? No, because even our voices are gendered. Why do trans-womxyn have to try their hardest to stop walking, talking, even gesturing like men & start doing so like women, while never 100% succeeding? Gender is conditioned based on sex.

Behavioural patterns:

More women than men attempt suicide, likewise more trans-men than trans-womxyn attempt suicide

More men than women commit crimes, likewise more trans-womxyn than trans-men commit crimes

Men are overrepresented in media & high positions compared to women, likewise trans-womxyn are overrepresented in those same areas compared to trans-men.

The same is true of gay men vs. lesbians. Trans people & homosexuals may be GNC superficially, but that doesn't mean they behave like the opposite sex. The trends in behaviour reveal that they are still gender conforming in every meaningful way. What we perceive as femininity in GNC men, or masculinity in GNC women is a very male version of femininity & female version of masculinity, respectively, that you don't actually see in their gender conforming counterparts.

Gender distinctions we can be sure are true. It's sociology. Science & business depend on people conforming to their demographics. It's a legitimate science that billion dollar industries can depend on, so so can feminism. It's one of the most integral parts of feminism. Simone de Beauvoir explained all this in a 1975 interview:

"that formula (One is not born but made a woman) is the basis of all my theories & it's meaning is very simple: that being a woman is not a natural fact. It's a result of a certain history. There is no biological or psychological destiny that defines a woman as such. She is the product of a history, of civilisation, first of all, which has resulted in her current status. And secondary for each individual woman of her personal history in particular, that of her childhood. This determines her as a woman, creates in her something which is not at all innate, or an essence, something which has been called the "eternal feminine", or femininity. The more we study the psychology of children the deeper we delve, the more evident it becomes that baby girls are manufactured to become women [...] Long before a child is conscious, the way it is breastfed, or held, or rocked etc. inscribes in its body what might later appear a destiny".

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We don't all fit norms though even if we are taught them. Like, I was raised as a boy, but it didn't take for me the same way it did for my older brothers and made me unhappy and upset. Even things like my mannerisms and speech marked me as different from other boys even if I didn't want to be. I'm not saying those things made me a girl, but saying we always have a gender identity that matched our sex just isn't true for way you are using that word.