QT oriented question but anyone can comment: How much of a choice do we have over our gender identity (assuming for the sake of argument that gender identity exists in all people)?

submitted by DistantGlimmer from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I just think that the difference in our sex will always separate transwomen and women, even in terms of gender identity (assuming it means what the other poster said). Even if you forget you’re not female or you have a lot in common with your female friends- I’d bet everything I have that when it comes to many issues or topics, the way your female friends internalize it differs drastically from how you do. The treatment you receive as a passing transwoman may well be similar (maybe even identical) to the treatment women receive, but it reinforces our socialization And how we were “taught” gender since before we were born, it goes against what you were taught at a young age, and imo even when you started to pass, you’re still having an entirely different experience. You’re experiencing life as a male who is perceived as a woman. I have no idea what that is like for you, internally, even when you explain some things I want to ask you more and more because it sounds foreign to me (tho I appreciate your honesty and willingness to answer me). I guess I just think that, we could and likely do have much in common, but I think what was said about gender identity being aligned with your sex still remains true, even when someone passes well.

I would also guess that, as you seem much more understanding and empathetic than pretty much every other TW from the sub, that you may personally be coming from a mentality where you have more respect for women, like you listen to listen and not to defend yourself or argue, and maybe that’s why you relate better.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry for the slow response.

Being a transsexual male who is perceived as a female is a unique experience that is different from females in many ways. I don’t know what life would be like to not be that. I don’t experience periods or have to worry about pregnancy, plus like the differences in childhood socialization so I know I’m not the same.

I guess I’m feeling like the way u/SnowAssMan described gender identity as a social identity, it’s difficult for me to see how my social identity isn’t a woman’s, though I mean that only in how I experience it. I don’t know if that makes sense lol. It can’t be the same as other women because I’m not a female. It’s not me trying to say that females experience the world the same way I do, just that I have difficulty labeling my experience in the world as a man’s experience and I don’t process it that way. It’s just hard for me to understand how my gender identity (using the earlier definition) could be aligned with my sex when I don’t experience it that way. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective and I’ll keep trying to understand. Thank you for the kind words. I really value interacting with you. :)

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I get what you’re saying, I think that’s why I was saying in my other comment that gender identity would have to be an individual thing. To me what you’re describing sounds like “gender identity”, but your gender identity seems to be drastically different from Masks, or Sextrillion (does anyone remember them?!!) or etc.. it seems like all of you three (and obviously many more TW) think of yourselves a women, but all of you think it in a different way. It seems personal, whereas for me and pretty much every woman in know, we just know we’re women because we’re female adults. I guess what I was trying to say is that gender identity isn’t “relevant” to society because it’s internal, while gender is society, and I think that’s why regardless of someone’s “gender identity”, if a trans person doesn’t pass, they won’t be perceived as their “preferred gender” (to use the term offered earlier). I get the view that passing TW are “socially women”, though I disagree for a few reasons, I acknowledge that a passing TW would be treated just like me unless or until it is known they are trans, but the fact that they would have to be “stealth” in order to receive that treatment is another huge divide. I remember you expressing concern about coworkers and friends finding out you’re trans, that’s for me, something that is a huge separation between “social women(Passing TW)” and women. I think it’s relevant that trans status being disclosed to society would influence the treatment and perception of a passing transwoman. Idk I’m rambling again. Need coffee lol.

Always enjoy interacting with you