Sweden: The One Chart that Matters

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[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not sure that a second peak even could be anything like the strength of the first, bearing in mind something like 40% would have already had it. Add in face masks lessening severity, and the fact that it's already ripped through the care homes where most of the mortality was going to come from.

Bear in mind when you look at antibody studies, they are only picking up people who had it within a few weeks prior to the test. Antibodies don't stick around.

One of the countries testing found their T cell study found twice as many recovered as the antibodies suggested.

The R number goes down very quickly once you start getting close to fifty percent too, unless you've got something that's got long term survivability on surfaces.

I think the worst of it is probably over.

[–]VirgilGriff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Sweden clear-cut its elderly population, let it spread like wildfire in nursing homes, and denied medical service to dying people at the peak of the infections. The deaths per day are low because the people suffering from it now aren't in the groups that are most likely to die. But they're still getting serious illness with SARS-like longterm health effects.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But they're still getting serious illness with SARS-like longterm health effects.

What are these "longterm health effects"?

[–]VirgilGriff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Similar to SARS-CoV-1 and pneumonia, the most common long-term sideeffects seems to be lungs that don't fully heal. If you have a bad immunological response in your lungs (which may save your life), you will be left with damage, which sometimes turns into scar tissue. A significant number of COVID-19 patients who got moderate or severe illness still haven't recovered their fully ability to breathe months later. For SARS patients many haven't recovered even after 10 years.

SARS was studied before COVID-19, and they found a that compared to a similar control population, the once-infected group had significantly worse metrics for health and quality of life. Here's a two-year study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20337995/

Here's 15-year study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41413-020-0084-5?error=cookies_not_supported&code=c40b84ce-9ec8-4ac5-aa98-ad86c88314ef. It found that lung function improved for two years and then remained steady (but under baseline) for 10 years.

Here's a 14-year study that noted that SARS patients had "significant metabolic disruptions," though perhaps caused by medication: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09536-z?error=cookies_not_supported&code=6596c2b3-6f48-4689-8c63-0e2533de8d1a

Here's an article discussing two-year health decline and worse mental health metrics in SARS patients: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070625193450.htm

Of course, reduced ability to diffuse oxygen and CO2 can have long-term ramifications to your organs, and you'll likely be prevented from exercising in a manner that would've otherwise helped you, too.

With all that being said, we're already seeing lung scarring and lesions sticking around in recovered COVID-19 patients, just like with SARS. We're only ~6 months in but it makes sense, as both SARS-CoV-1 and 2 attack the lungs, as do other viral pneumonias: https://www.dw.com/en/covid-19-recovered-patients-have-partially-reduced-lung-function/a-52859671

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Tuberculosis kills many more people every year, and it does more severe lung damage.

Where's the tuberculosis pandemic?

[–]VirgilGriff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What are the """"long-term health effects""""" of COVID-19?

Here are the long-term health effects of COVID-19

Y-yeah but other diseases exist

Fucking genius

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Actually, the logic is a much deadlier disease already exists, which kills more people, but there's no hysteria around it.

Why not panic about more about tuberculosis.

The casualties are way down, but they hysteria is up. Lockdowns in Australia.

It's medical martial law.

Covid is a hoax.

[–]VirgilGriff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Actually, you moved the goalposts and now want to lie about what you've done. Sad

[–]Optimus85 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sweden clear-cut its elderly population, let it spread like wildfire in nursing homes, and denied medical service to dying people at the peak of the infections.

Source?

[–]VirgilGriff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

From late May:

Three-quarters of Swedes who have died have been either in nursing homes or receiving at-home care.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-sweden-coronavirus-deaths-health-authorities.html

From late June:

The health authorities have received many complaints about how elderly relatives were treated. A consistent theme is that nursing home residents with suspected Covid-19 were immediately placed on palliative care and given morphine and denied supplementary oxygen and intravenous fluids and nutrition. For many this was effectively a death sentence.

“People suffocated, it was horrible to watch. One patient asked me what I was giving him when I gave him the morphine injection, and I lied to him,” said Latifa Löfvenberg, a nurse. “Many died before their time. It was very, very difficult.”

The idea was to keep hospital ICUs from being overwhelmed by older patients with a low chance of survival. However, the surge never happened. Instead, the elderly were denied access to unused facilities.

https://www.bioedge.org/bioethics/questions-raised-about-swedens-covid-19-policy-on-nursing-homes/13479

They murdered their parents so they could prepare for a wave of younger patients that never came. Sweden has a socialist healthcare system and you're at the mercy of the government as to whether or not you're going to receive medical care.

[–]Optimus85 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Probably not the best course of action.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wait, so they were worried that there would be this surge of sick people (like a pandemic) but then it never happened? Hmmm

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The way it tapers down to around zero near the summer around the being of Summer...

Very similar to the regular ol' flu.

Weird.