Saidit is getting shitty, full of losers that keep banging their head against the things that they hate, small simple minds that focus on division, that keep talking about how scary the left is, how bad white people are treated (with no sense of irony) how bad the protestors make them feel LOL etc

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[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

Hi. I liked your posts.

There are a lot of far right trolls, that just entered this site.
I hope they will grow up, someday.
But they focus on division and emotional reactions.
In that sense, they are just as stupid as the groups they oppose so much.

I want to keep different opinions and ideas on this site.
Otherwise we are creating too much group think.
But indeed there may be more cooperation, instead of division.

It is easy to cooperate against a single enemy, like the extreme violent left,
or reddit/google as tools for political interference.
That is what brought people to this place initially.

Instead I would like to start a community where we have
more cooperation instead of division.
Maybe "some basic respect" for each other's ideas and opinions.
And being able to do some discussions about it.

"some basic respect" means that if you like communism or like porn or like guns,
that you can still talk about your preference without being attacked for it.
If you want to "enforce it" onto someone else, that is something completely different. And sadly this is what some people in the trans-community are doing, for example.

Same is with feminism, patriarchy, religions, etc.
You are allowed to have your own style of living.
We can also criticize some practices that are in that,
but everything can be done with freedom and "some basic respect".

Due to the continuous propaganda by the extreme left,
we can expect some extremist opposition. I see that stuff clearly on Voat.
It was a normal site like this in the start.
Now they try to blame everything on jews and n*, because they
react to the continuous lies that they are fed with.

I also think that some nazi ideas on voat are pushed by Israel's ADL
in an effort to ban the site from the internet.
They use the same tricks as AHS.
People on voat just take the bait too easily.
Here, there is some censorship (pyramid of debate).

As a solution I would like to upgrade Saidit's pyramid of debate to:
"have some basic respect" or
"be excellent with each other".

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

With that upgrade of "have some basic respect",
many posts and replies here would need to be removed.
Note: This is not necessary for jokes or when it is really a part of the discussion.

The level of "decency" can of course be discussed.
And is different per subject.

As a moderator on reddit I had many trolls,
due to the misunderstanding of the topics.
And the discussions only started improving when I started to remove their trolling replies.
I often added a reply to the person that was going too far,
or if that did not work, I replaced his reply with the same thing without insults and such.

Often people use logical fallacies to be able to oppose things,
without actually saying anything useful.
And this is a huge problem, not just on the internet,
but in our media and in much of our science.

This also causes division.
And overcoming division is only possible
by NOT doing the things that caused the division.

[–]Dragonerne 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (14 children)

As a solution I would like to upgrade Saidit's pyramid of debate to: "have some basic respect" or "be excellent with each other".

No. Never do that. It is too vague and will be misinterpreted by moderators like the ones on r/Denmark or r/Europe.
"Basic respect" is like "Hate speech" laws. It doesn't work.

Pyramid of Debate is perfect because it is about the argument. It absolutely destroys leftists because they always derail, deflect, insult etc.

"Basic Respect" will be abused sooo much by leftists. They did it so much on r/Denmark that it even became a meme (https://i.imgur.com/ayG2gUJ.jpg). "Sænk Tonen" (= lower the tone, danish expression), the bottom text says "En lille smule betyder en hel del" (= just a little can make a huge different). In english you have the word "Thought police" (tankepoliti in danish) but we also have the word "Tonepolitiet" which is like the "Tone police".

[–]SheSellsSeaShells 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Imagine thinking that expecting basic courtesy is exclusive to the left.

[–]Dragonerne 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Please tone down the attitude.

You're ridiculing me. Are mods even seeing this? Why can't we have a civil discourse with basic respect between the users.
Lack of basic respect between users has really been a problem lately and mods are not doing anything about it at all. It's really ruining the mood in the subreddit and creating a lot of bad vibes and negativity.

It's always in these kinds of threads too. Are you on some discord brigading the threads and coordinating these hostilities?
Etc. Etc.

Trust me the Tone Police is real and you completely missed the point of my comment. It's not that "expecting basic courtesy is exclusive to the left" at all. In fact rather the opposite actually.

As I also wrote in my comment, leftists love to throw insults and so on. This has nothing to do with "basic courtesy". It is about power and control over what you're allowed to say.
They will abuse such rules massively because they are vague.

They will twist "basic respect" to disallow specific words, to ban users that "trigger" others by writing "mean comments" etc.

And they will ban you with a straight face quoting their "basic respect"-rule while insulting you for being a bad human being.

[–]SheSellsSeaShells 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Bad faith ^

[–]Dragonerne 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Please read the entire comment.

[–]SheSellsSeaShells 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I did. You're equivocating genuine good decorum with tone policing, and the two aren't the same. The OP is advocating for the former.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

It's possible that tone policing in english is not the same as tone policing in danish.

What you wrote "Imagine thinking..." is clearly meant to ridicule me - not that I care. The tone in your comment is condescending. This is the way it was used in by leftists and you're absolutely right that it's bad faith but that's how leftists are. They don't care, they just don't want you to express your opinion if it contradicts theirs and they will happily lie or use power to silence you.

Is it "genuine good decorum" to ridicule someone? Couldn't you have phrased your comment in a more polite manner where you said the same but didn't ridicule me in the process? --- do you see how this works? They will gladly abuse vague rules by moving definitions.

OP is not advocating for any of this, but leftists will gladly misinterpret the meaning of "basic respect"

[–]SheSellsSeaShells 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, I could have been more polite. I was just ribbing you for your initial comment because I’m someone who is economically left and I don’t think generalizations really help anyone find truth. I do see your point on people abusing systems to their own advantage, but I don’t think that means we should abandon any effort to be courteous and open-minded.

[–]Wahwah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Precisely, the moment your 'feelings' become thoroughly involved in the debate, the debate is flawed. That never suggests you abuse is permitted in debates either. If someone abuses you ad hominem, they are definitely not looking for a rational debate.

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I understand what you mean. That is why I used "quotes".

But how would you define it, or do you think it is impossible.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I think it is impossible. When I saw the Pyramid of Debate I really thought it was ingenious, because it allows you to be able to debate as you see fit as long as you are actually doing it properly.

What I noticed on r/Denmark is that the rule "Personal Attacks" was responsible for banning sooo many leftists. Pyramid of Debate doesn't allow personal attacks too.
The other rule "Hate Speech" was responsible for banning so many right wing users that it's not even funny. The most hilarious examples were some users that the mods hated and then they would "misinterpret" sarcasm or irony, you know if the user wrote one thing but meant the opposite. So they would write like "Yeah, it's totally because they're foreigners [Disclaimer to mods: This is sarcasm]" which mods would then use as if the user actually meant it... Meanwhile you had leftist comments calling danes "pigs" or "potatoes" or "pig skinned" or the likes to which mods always answered "Yes, we treat each comment based on the context". That one is a meme too btw. "Moderation baseret på kontekstTM". (Context based Moderation). If you send a modmail to ask them if "This sentence" breaks the rule,, they will always reply that they don't moderate hypotheticals and only deal with concrete comments. 100% biased moderation.
It got worse though. Nowadays they just ban the users if they link the wrong things or say the wrong things.
Discussing race and genetics by linking studies is not allowed there. They will just ban you.

Here they can't do that because it would be the top of the pyramid even if it is so-called "Hate Speech"

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like it.

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here is an example of discussing controversial topics, in a good way..
Steven Crowder -
Black Lives Matter is a Domestic Terrorist Organization | Change My Mind
https://www.bitchute.com/video/yITK_Bm78mI/

[–]Velocity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As the devils advocate: Is Voat correct in their collective beliefs? If not then why?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

After much research on a lot of these topics, it appears that the "middle-of-the ground" voat consensus is absolutely, factually, correct. I used to love Voat, but now I worry it has become a honeypot to spy on people who know "too much" truth and reality. The "dangerous" (to the subversive subhumans) people.

And then there's the violent-minded trolls who seemingly can't understand the difference between "one nation, one people" and outright genocide, those who think blacks are the problem and not admixture, and so on, and so forth.

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is no collective belief, but a group of people on voat post extreme right ideas,
and these seem popular based on upvotes.

This is not balanced at all, in my opinion.
I think that the extreme right is just a small group, mixed with some trolls.