The Auschwitz Death Toll was a Lie.

submitted by sausageroll from self.politics

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[–]MuskyIndependent 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

with 0 evidence to back it up

That is the problem with the Holocaust, a lack of hard evidence for the claims. "In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 120,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust, including most of those Jews deported out of Germany." https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-jews-during-the-holocaust This source give a slightly higher lower bound than other places, it's just an estimate after all.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Your article only mentions German jews,it says nothing about all the jews that were in other european countries that germany invaded. https://annefrank.freetls.fastly.net/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/b2/34/b2348d8e-1497-4aa6-9001-cf88546b91b3/afs_jf_kaart_h4_nl.jpg__1536x1536_q85_subsampling-2.jpg

[–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

I think 120k sounds reasonable. Those other figures I'd need proof for that doesn't exist because they get into the realm of sounding like ridiculous war propaganda.

In any case, the Holocaust card has been overplayed. Jews are the only racial supremacists of any concern left and they're only allowed to do this because of that victim card. It's way past time that ends.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

On what sources?There exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total. The Nazi regime did keep some records on their killings. There exist reports from camp leaders about the average rates of the camps as well as information taken from Adolph Eichmann himself which rests it at roughly the 6 million mark. If you compare this information to postwar census data and the prewar information on total amount of jewish population in specific areas you also end up with a figure ranging from around 5.3 million to 6.2 million. We may never know the exact number thanks to uncertainty of actual jewish population in some areas (for example, stalinist russia) as well as the actions of the Einsatzgruppen, which often killed "subhumans" without doing any paperwork recording the exact numbers. The number may vary wildly but the 6 million figure is the most accurate APPROXIMATION we have based on the given information

sources: Wilhelm Höttl, an SS officer and a Doctor of History, testified at the Nuremberg Trials and Eichmann's trial that at a meeting he had with Eichmann in Budapest in late August 1944, "Eichmann ... told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 (six million) Jews had perished until then – 4,000,000 (four million) in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 (two million) through shooting by the Operations Units and other causes, such as disease, etc. Dawidowicz, Lucy S. (1986). The war against the Jews, 1933–1945. New York: Bantam Books. ISBN 0-553-34302-5.p. 403 Martin Gilbert (2002). The Routledge atlas of the Holocaust, 3rd Ed. London: Routledge. p. 245. ISBN 0-415-28145-8.

[–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

There exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total.

Is there any proof the people named were rounded up and exterminated in concentration camps? My issue is not that you can't produce a list of names.

The Nazi regime did keep some records on their killings. There exist reports from camp leaders about the average rates of the camps as well as information taken from Adolph Eichmann

The ones where they're trying to reduce deaths, yeah, seen those. Doesn't speak to your side of things.

We may never know the exact number thanks to uncertainty of actual jewish population in some areas

So, 120k is as good a number as any.

Wilhelm Höttl, an SS officer and a Doctor of History, testified at the Nuremberg Trials and Eichmann's trial that at a meeting he had with Eichmann in Budapest in late August 1944, "Eichmann ... told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 (six million) Jews had perished until then

That's the only source for the 6 million figure. One guy said so.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Where are your sources for 120k people?attributed to Eichmann at the Nuremburg Trials. As is clarified in another response, that 6 million figure is merely jewish casualties. Total death toll edges closer to 11 million. Also the name of the group is the Einsatzgruppen. The name means "task force" or "deployment groups" and were a special arm of the Shutzstaffel tasked with carrying out executions, most commonly in newly conquered areas of the ostfront. The official procedure changed from hunter/killer squads to death camps for several reasons, namely efficiency and overall expense but also due to the fact that even these trained and willing killers found it too hard to carry out their duties as time dragged on. Many suffered severe mental strain, horrible nightmares and even physical ailments. Many turned to alcoholism or excessive brutality to cope. There exists a story about Heinrich Himmler that details how even those full of hatred could be affected by seeing their barbarism carried out in person, the story is detailed here and it is very telling: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/himmlerinminsk.html

[–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

Where are your sources for 120k people

Are there multiple people on this account, cause your account already replied regarding the source for that figure.

Total death toll edges closer to 11 million.

Hah, you can't prove 6 mil so why not double down. Why stop at 11 million, make it a billion Jews while you're at it.

There exists a story

Yeah, a story.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Bro you people keep fucking take any sentence and reword it into a strawman.6 million is the total number of jews killed.5M is the non jews who were killed.You do know there were other people who died right?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

6 million is the total number of jews killed.

This figure seems highly dubious. The estimate of the total number of Jews in all of Germany in 1933 was 0.5 million, yet supposedly they killed 12x this amount and still had survivors. As others have stated, the Auschwitz death toll was reduced from 4M to 1M in 1990 with no correlating reduction in the 6M figure. I don't know what the real number is, but there is no way that number is right, although I don't think the specific number being different changes anything about the narrative, it was still a lot of Jews rounded up in camps and dead, just not nearly as many as claimed

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/germany-jewish-population-in-1933

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Once again you're only listening jews that were in Germany and not all the other european countries the nazis invaded .Also auschwitz wasn't the only death camp. https://i.redd.it/p0rysjo2dn941.jpg https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/documenting-numbers-of-victims-of-the-holocaust-and-nazi-persecution

[–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

6 million is the total number of jews killed.

The point of all of this is that there's not good evidence for that number.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Not according to what the majority of historians and people who've study the holocaust have said.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

😮