Wasn't the brief 2017 economy turn around a nice breather? I hope your all happy you f'ked it up!

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[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

To be fair, the coronavirus didn't force those businesses to close, our shut down mandate did.

Flight restrictions wouldn't have helped either, the virus was already here by the time we even considered that, just as we found again with Omicron and the Africa Travel Ban that clearly didn't do anything

[–]ShalomEveryoneCommunist Party 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

To be fair, the coronavirus didn't force those businesses to close, our shut down mandate did.

If trump did not screw up his response, that would not have been necessary because COVID19 would have been under control.

Flight restrictions wouldn't have helped either

Yes it would, less people coming in with the disease means less people to spread it.

Shalom

✡️

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If trump did not screw up his response, that would not have been necessary because COVID19 would have been under control, so I have some doubt that would be the case

I will grant you that Trump's response was less than ideal, and that may have contributed to why USA has a very high deaths per capita compared to many other countries. However, when I look around the world, I don't see any country that country that has it "under control".

Yes it would, less people coming in with the disease means less people to spread it.

By that logic we should be STILL be restricting all the flights, even though scientists say Omicron is endemic and everyone will get it.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you ShalomEveryone, just think there is more nuance here than you are portraying. While we seem to disagree, I don't think of you as ideological enemy, I myself have some interest in communist theory. I don't think state-centralized communism has been shown to work very well, but Marx had some really Important ideas, and I am fascinated by Kropotkin's decentralized Anarcho-Communism.

[–]ShalomEveryoneCommunist Party 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don't see any country that country that has it "under control".

No other country has the resources that America has. COVID19 would not have ravaged America like it did if it weren't for his incompetence. It would have been under control in the sense that it would not have been as nearly as bad as it was because of trump's incompetence.

By that logic we should be STILL be restricting all the flights

Nope, wrong logic you're using. At first there were no COVID19 tests. Also, there were no vaccines unlike now. There's no need to stop incoming flights from China.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you ShalomEveryone

That's obvious, you're not lobbing insults. We're just two people with differing opinions.

just think there is more nuance here than you are portraying.

Nope, trump could have been proactive but he was not. It would be an insult to even say he was reactive because he took too long to get his ass in gear.

I myself have some interest in communist theory.

What does communism have to do with trump's incompetence in handling COVID?

Shalom

✡️

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No other country has the resources that America has. COVID19 would not have ravaged America like it did if it weren't for his incompetence. It would have been under control in the sense that it would not have been as nearly as bad as it was because of trump's incompetence.

Fair point. I won't even attempt to defend Trump's handling of the situation. Its possible things could have been much better with a different response, I think it would have made a differnce, but guess I still have some doubts that it wouldn't still be a similar situation. I can respect where you are coming from here though. We disagree about a magnitude not the basic facts.

Nope, wrong logic you're using. At first there were no COVID19 tests. Also, there were no vaccines unlike now. There's no need to stop incoming flights from China.

You have a point on the testing. The vaccines, we now know, reduce the severity of infection, not prevent infection or transmission according to Walensky and the CDC. The sky high case rates in highly vaccinated countries like Israel is also evidence of this. Again I think this is just a disagreement about the perceived magnitude of the benefits of the vaccine, because I still see a lot of disruption even with the vaccines, testing, and Omicron being less deadly.

What does communism have to do with trump's incompetence in handling COVID?

Absolutely nothing, but most people I talk to who disagree me assume I am a Republican and an ideological enemy who IS trying to pick a fight with them, despite the fact the I am not lobbing insults. I appreciate that you recognize this is not the case, but it happens so often, I try to be clear that isn't where I am coming from.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it still would have spread according to the CDC, closing borders would just be to slow it so hospitals aren't overworked, they're always full before covid anyway though.

[–]ShalomEveryoneCommunist Party 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

it still would have spread according to the CDC

Not at the high rate that it did previously.

closing borders would just be to slow

No it wouldn't. Have agents close stop incoming traffic except for the traffic that's deemed essential. Trucks with goods and such. You're just making excuses to excuse trump's incompetence.

Shalom

✡️

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Trump tried to do it early to nip it in the bud but got name called for it and it was overthrown or something. I remember he tried to do it but couldn't get it passed and now look where we are! Everything Biden has been given credit for Trump did first and better.

[–]ShalomEveryoneCommunist Party 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Trump tried to do it early

Tried how? I don't recall trump doing so. If trump wanted to close early all he had to do was execute an executive order. If trump let name calling delay taking action that only goes to show how inept he was at running America.

and it was overthrown or something.

It wasn't. "Or something", lol.

Everything Biden has been given credit for Trump did first and better.

Unemployment under trump peaked at 14.7%, Biden never had unemployment rate that high. Looks like Biden is currently doing a better job of the economy than trump.

Shalom

✡️

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

trump did and was called racist for closing borders. It's true he downplayed covid at first which was correct to do as it's just the sniffles. I don't think they did the wuhan bioweapon to stop trump cuz it's still going, it's the new normal of taking away rights.

[–]ShalomEveryoneCommunist Party 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

trump did and was called racist for closing borders.

He took too long to close the border because of his incompetence. trump was called a racist going back to the primaries, that did not stop the way he acted.

It's true he downplayed covid at first

At first he ignored it, then he downplayed it when he could no longer ignore it.

covid at first which was correct to do as it's just the sniffles.

The very same sniffles that sent him to the hospital for a weekend during the Presidential Election? The very same sniffles that gave him labored breathing from walking up some stairs after coming home from the hospital?

it's the new normal of taking away rights.

What rights did people lose? People cant own guns? People cant vote? People cant own a business?

Shalom

✡️