Where are all the conservative socialists in the West?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.politics

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[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Why do you call it free when it isn't free? If it were free literally no one would object. The entire controversy revolves around forcing one person to pay for (and in essence work in servitude for-slavery-) the benefit of someone else. This is wrong. It is evil. Setting up an evil system with the excuse that you do it with good intentions is delusional.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

"Why do you call it free when it isn't free?" I am not paying for it therefor it is free for me. The people who are paying for it are those who can afford to (at least that is how it should be). A rich person isn't going to starve if you tax him so there is nothing immoral in making him share his wealth with those who need it more. A rich person is a part of the society. A society that has allowed him to get rich. He owes that society for that. Marxists-Leninists would say that we ought to take away all his riches and redistribute them equally. I am more liberal in this regard. I say that as long as the richer people do their duty and support the poorer ones by paying taxes, they should be allowed to keep their wealth as a "reward" for having generated it. Everyone must do their duty for the good of the society as best they can. The poorer ones do their duty by working and the richer do their duty by by managing wealth production and paying taxes.

"forcing one person to pay for the benefit of someone else" If this someone else needs it more, it is our duty to make the rich person share instead of hoarding his wealth for his greedy self.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A society that has allowed him to get rich.

You live in that same society, so why aren't you rich? Maybe because he worked his ass off as a kid to get good grades. Maybe because his parents forced him to sacrifice his childhood to become successful. Now you have the audacity to claim he didn't work for it, rather society gave it to him. Based on what? Based on the fact that this story is convenient or you. But clearly a lie, as clearly everyone in society is not rich.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If it wasn't for the society, he would be in Savannah chasing his week's meal. If it wasn't for the society, anybody with a bigger stick would be able to take everything away from him. We are social creatures. We live in a civilization without which we would be nothing more than hairless apes walking on back legs.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wrong. Without society some of us would have the rest of you as slaves. Without society those who's achievements you diminish with these baseless claims would be the apex predators.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That is what every capitalist thinks until an angry mob reminds him of his true place with a pitchfork.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Mobs are just large groups of weak men. Weak men can only grow to those numbers in the safety and abundance of societies. Strong men build those societies. Weak men grow in them like a fungus, then destroy those societies.

It is a tragedy not a triumph.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To prevent all that from happening, we have welfare where the "strong" take care of the "weak" and try help them get stronger.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That is only just if it is voluntary. When the weak outnumber the strong and use that to take more and more, it is not only tyranny but also destructive. Like any parasite that takes too much it eventually kills the host.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, that is why we need the state to control it.