BLM Leftists Attack Rand Paul And Brandon Straka Outside RNC, This Must Stop, Democrats Have Failed

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[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

1) Again, the Left isn't a team, this isn't fucking sports. And I'm not giving you specifics because I've played this game before. You'll latch onto some minor inaccuracy in what I say and claim it invalidates the broader argument and shift the goalposts. I told you, read the report and try to argue against it directly; that might actually be impressive.

And before you try to say that you've actually been arguing in good faith, note that you asked me for the claims of the Mueller Report, and then later admitted to already knowing what they were! You are just playing games and being dishonest. Surprise fucking surprise.

2) Dude, again, that's not how the No True Scotsman fallacy works. It would be one thing if I said "you can't actually be a progressive because you don't support gun control" or some other detail of policy or positions. But the Venn diagram of progressive ideas and Trumpism is pretty much two separate circles. But you claim to not have changed and that the Left has moved around you? No, you just never knew what the ideology was about in the first place, and with each post you make that more obvious.

3) Ah, we've reached the "accusal of projection" part of the script. You deviated quite a bit at the beginning, and I thought maybe this conversation might actually go somewhere! But alas, now we're right back on track. Good day.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You'll latch onto some minor inaccuracy in what I say and claim it invalidates the broader argument and shift the goalposts

Try me. Think I haven't had the same experience? But I'm still in the ring, aren't I? I'm still keeping the channels of communication open with people I know disagree vehemently with me, aren't I? Why am I doing that. Because I have a civic responsibility to do it. Because it's now basically my second job but my first responsibility. Because what happens after people stop trying to find common ground and the mutual respect that comes with it is the worst thing in the universe. Because we have to try and keep trying.

But the Venn diagram of progressive ideas and Trumpism is pretty much two separate circles.

You are aware of the walkaway movement, right? I mean, you know that those people disagree with you too. Are they all trolls? Is it a conspiracy.

I walked away from the illiberal Left when I saw and heard with my own eyes who they were and what they believed.

Trump is colorblind , and so am I. Proudly colorblind. Trump believes in the dignity of individual effort and work and so do I. Trump believes that America should provide opportunities for her own people first because we will only destroy ourselves and not help the world a bit by infinitely outsourcing our jobs to nations without environmental or labor laws.

You only destroy opportunities for millions of Black people by importing unlimited people from 3rd world nations to do medium skilled work Black people could have made careers of. Roofing, landscaping, builders, welders, cooks, blue collar work of all kinds.. all these are flooded with illegal immigrants who YOU and I are not forced to compete against but people of more limited means ARE forced ot compete against. These were all paths for Black entrepreneurs, but the left carpet bombed it with unlimited labor competition.

Ralph Nader used to make this point. Now it's some kind of xenophobia or some such shit.

There's an unlimited number of those people to be imported. What about the people who were born here? Why does the Left prioritize those people over Black people? Because they believe they will vote for them, that's why. They are importing Democratic voters and keeping Black people on welfare when they're not just outright aborting them in the womb.

That my friend is systemic racism.

The Left was against the TPP treaty which Hillary and Obama were going to ratify. They were in Seattle in the Battle iIn Seattle protesting exactly those things. The Left was against globalism and bad trrade deals like NAFTA.

But once Trump refomred, in the case of NAFTA or cancelled, in the case of the TPP, those things, they forgot all about their previous positions.

The Left is defined now by one big issue- identity poltics - which is nothing but a Marxism and racism stew. I'm not having any.

[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have not heard of the walkaway movement, so I googled it. According to Wikipedia, it's about leaving the Democratic party, not progressivism; and also it's an astroturfed campaign by Russian bots. So "conspiracy"-ish? I guess?

Your point about immigrant competition in the labor market is interesting. I'll have to look into that some more, but my gut reactions: * The economy is not a zero-sum game. Is this competition actually removing opportunities from those with limited means? * Are immigrants actually making careers in these fields? How long do they do it for? In my personal experience, roofers and landscapers are always white guys. * Is there actually a realistic path for entrepreneurship here? The day laborers might be immigrants, but I expect that the actual business owners are white, and the business has been passed down generationally.

Certainly something worth looking into, and not something I've seen discussed.

But omg the TPP. You are 100% right on that. That was such a strange experience, seeing everyone on Reddit completely turn around, seemingly overnight. It certainly felt artificial and astroturfed. NPR also had a pushed campaign supporting it all of a sudden. But this may be due to the separation between progressives and the Democratic Party, which is much more corporatist.

Identity politics...now it's my turn to call "projection!" Republicans are all about the party line and purity tests. "RINO", anyone? And it's not about the argument, it's about who says it. See, for example, the sharp change in Republican voters' views on Russia and Vladimir Putin after Trump won the nomination. To identify as a Republican you must embrace it wholeheartedly or else be a traitor to the party.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unless you have really bought into the anit-free speech movement or Critical Theory shit, we just can't be that different. I am a classical Liberal. Big L. Progressive. My whole life. I still believe nearly all the things I ever did.

But the Left has gone insane. Believe me, I knew people who hated Shakespeare for being a Dead White Male. I thought they were stupid, myopic, narcissists who were looking to elevate themselves over people like Shakespeare by devising a kind of retroactive morality test designed to make him fail and them pass. They disgusted me, but they weren't in control of anything. They were the lunatic fringe. Now they run the joint. That's terrifying. I am watching my country descend into a kind of madness and it's terrifying and what makes it 10x worse is the corporations and coporate media and the universities and all of one of the two parties and half of the other are all in.

This is what it feels like to be watching a fascist movement rise around you and peoople starting to fall in line. You start thinking existentially, you start reengineering your life and effort and time around defeating it.