BLM Leftists Attack Rand Paul And Brandon Straka Outside RNC, This Must Stop, Democrats Have Failed

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[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Cute, but like I told you, I've played this game before. I'm not going to bother trying to summarize the report for you, because then you'll just attack my summary and claim it as a "win." Mueller is a smarter guy than me and so if you're going to try to pick something apart, you can try against his words.

Read the report and maybe you'll see that Trump isn't the Messiah you think he is.

I've never met someone who has actually read the report (the actual thing, not some fucking Breitbart Cliff's notes) and came away still thinking that Trump cares about America.

And yes, you absolutely are the problem, and no, you were never a progressive.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I asked for one claim. IN the impeachment there were two. You only had to know them and speak them. Sort of the very minimal things you should just know, having paid attention.

Everything about you reeks of contempt. You can't be bothered to articulate what it is you believe Trump did so a fellow American can examine a specific claim and the two fo you can talk about it. Again, the minimal effort you'd have to put forth to have a discussion.

Next you unilaterally declare not what you think I am (that's evident) but what I ever was.

This is heart of the matter. You say- "Conservatives think Trump is a messiah". You assign to yourself completely autocratic level of authority and omnicient knowledge over the lives and beliefs and personal characteristics of people you have never even met.

That my friend is dead-end contempt; contempt that cannot be relieved and cannot be reconciled.

Looking for serious respectful conversation on a specific matter of fact is just beneath you with "someone like me".

Think about what that leaves us. Think hard.

[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You are absolutely right. I do hold you in contempt, and I'm not interested in having a discussion.

As I told you, I've been down this road before, and it's never worth it. If you want to try to prove otherwise, go ahead and put the work in. If you don't, then fuck it, it's no loss to me.

As for the Messiah comment, my experience with Trump supporters has been one of three situations: a) they don't really pay attention to politics or news and just read stuff on Facebook; b) they absolutely worship him as members of his cult; or c) they are completely fucking retarded. You're too articulate to be C and it certainly seems like you pay attention. But maybe I assumed wrong.

And I still hold that you were never a progressive. A progressive cannot switch to authoritarianism so easily, and further would not do so simply because they were unhappy with their "team mates"--it's not about winning, it's about principles.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

1) I have never advocated for any kind of authoritarianism. I presume you think Trump has engaged in authoritariansim. once again, please name the thing you think he did so we can discuss.

2) Your "was never a progressive" is a near perrfect example of "No True Scotsman" fallacy as is likely to be found in the wild. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

1) ...What? Are you joking? Trump is clearly and openly AuthRight. Part of his appeal is his "strongman" personality; his supporters like that aspect. The authoritarianism is a feature, not a bug.

2) I'm aware of Scotsman, and no that's not what's happening here. You claimed that you stopped being a progressive because "it's all bullshitters"--so you're saying you switched because of people. But in doing so, your personal ideology switched from LibLeft* to AuthRight? You completely 180'd on your principles? That's very hard to believe, so it's more likely that you never subscribed to the ideology in the first place and were just claiming to be on "the team," before realizing it didn't jive with your views. Which is fine.

*Yes, I'm aware that some in AuthLeft also claim the label "progressive." If we were diving into that, then we could play Scotsman. But we're not, and the point still stands.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

1) I asked for an example. You replied with "are you joking??" then reasserted your belief.

2) It's not me that's 180ed . It's the progressives who have 180ed. I am left standing where I always was.

2a) this....

"And I still hold that you were never a progressive. A progressive cannot switch to authoritarianism so easily, and further would not do so simply because they were unhappy with their "team mates"--it's not about winning, it's about principles."

...is the very definition of no true scotsman fallacy:

He cannot be a True Scotsman because a True Scotsman would never X.

I cannot be a True Progressive because a True Progressive would never X.

[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

1) Because it's so ridiculous? It's not like Trump claims to be libertarian.

2) Umm..no? What are you even talking about.

2a) Lol, I think you are misunderstanding the Scotsman. A more equivalent analogy would be:

You: "I used to be a Scotsman, but then I realized I was actually Welsh."

Me: "Then you weren't a Scotsman."

Anyway, this has gone completely off the rails so I'm thinking you're just trolling. Goodbye.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This is what the Left is and why I left the Left. You refuse to engage in any substantive way. You substitute broad accusations and name calling when anyone tries to pin you down to specifics. You do this because you know you can't actually carry an argument.

You deny obvious reality. You literally used the No True Scotsman argument fallacy- word for word with the simplest substitution possible- and when it was pointed out you did that, you just deny it, that's all.

It's a refusal to engage with reality. Like Tom Wheeler in Portland, you refuse to see the reality which is going to kill you. Like NBC News, you deliberately and calculatingly deny and distort things you know are true.

Finally, into the mix, you , like all Leftists, accuse your opponent of doing exactly what it is you're doing and being exactly what it is you are, a cultist. A person living through a psychotic break with reality, projecting his character flaws and crimes onto the people around him, who are only trying to point out to him what he's doing.

Never say no one ever spoke the frank truth about you to you.

[–]Klondike 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

1) Again, the Left isn't a team, this isn't fucking sports. And I'm not giving you specifics because I've played this game before. You'll latch onto some minor inaccuracy in what I say and claim it invalidates the broader argument and shift the goalposts. I told you, read the report and try to argue against it directly; that might actually be impressive.

And before you try to say that you've actually been arguing in good faith, note that you asked me for the claims of the Mueller Report, and then later admitted to already knowing what they were! You are just playing games and being dishonest. Surprise fucking surprise.

2) Dude, again, that's not how the No True Scotsman fallacy works. It would be one thing if I said "you can't actually be a progressive because you don't support gun control" or some other detail of policy or positions. But the Venn diagram of progressive ideas and Trumpism is pretty much two separate circles. But you claim to not have changed and that the Left has moved around you? No, you just never knew what the ideology was about in the first place, and with each post you make that more obvious.

3) Ah, we've reached the "accusal of projection" part of the script. You deviated quite a bit at the beginning, and I thought maybe this conversation might actually go somewhere! But alas, now we're right back on track. Good day.

[–]AsInBeer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You'll latch onto some minor inaccuracy in what I say and claim it invalidates the broader argument and shift the goalposts

Try me. Think I haven't had the same experience? But I'm still in the ring, aren't I? I'm still keeping the channels of communication open with people I know disagree vehemently with me, aren't I? Why am I doing that. Because I have a civic responsibility to do it. Because it's now basically my second job but my first responsibility. Because what happens after people stop trying to find common ground and the mutual respect that comes with it is the worst thing in the universe. Because we have to try and keep trying.

But the Venn diagram of progressive ideas and Trumpism is pretty much two separate circles.

You are aware of the walkaway movement, right? I mean, you know that those people disagree with you too. Are they all trolls? Is it a conspiracy.

I walked away from the illiberal Left when I saw and heard with my own eyes who they were and what they believed.

Trump is colorblind , and so am I. Proudly colorblind. Trump believes in the dignity of individual effort and work and so do I. Trump believes that America should provide opportunities for her own people first because we will only destroy ourselves and not help the world a bit by infinitely outsourcing our jobs to nations without environmental or labor laws.

You only destroy opportunities for millions of Black people by importing unlimited people from 3rd world nations to do medium skilled work Black people could have made careers of. Roofing, landscaping, builders, welders, cooks, blue collar work of all kinds.. all these are flooded with illegal immigrants who YOU and I are not forced to compete against but people of more limited means ARE forced ot compete against. These were all paths for Black entrepreneurs, but the left carpet bombed it with unlimited labor competition.

Ralph Nader used to make this point. Now it's some kind of xenophobia or some such shit.

There's an unlimited number of those people to be imported. What about the people who were born here? Why does the Left prioritize those people over Black people? Because they believe they will vote for them, that's why. They are importing Democratic voters and keeping Black people on welfare when they're not just outright aborting them in the womb.

That my friend is systemic racism.

The Left was against the TPP treaty which Hillary and Obama were going to ratify. They were in Seattle in the Battle iIn Seattle protesting exactly those things. The Left was against globalism and bad trrade deals like NAFTA.

But once Trump refomred, in the case of NAFTA or cancelled, in the case of the TPP, those things, they forgot all about their previous positions.

The Left is defined now by one big issue- identity poltics - which is nothing but a Marxism and racism stew. I'm not having any.