Alberta to Ban Medical Transition for Children

submitted by HiddenFox from (theepochtimes.com)

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[–]HiddenFox[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This province shows time and time again to be the only place in ɐpɐuɐƆ for rational thinking.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

She also said that those under 15 years of age will not be allowed to take puberty blockers or hormone therapies as part of gender reassignment therapy.

Keep politicians out of medicine.

They're fucking idiots. The best medical treatment for someone should be determined by someone who knows what they're talking about.

[–]HiddenFox[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Normally I would agree with you with politicians and medicine but too many are pushing a personal agenda with a goal of social validation.

It truly has become a cult were rational thinking is dismissed. They are allowing minors to make life altering, irreversible and damaging choices that are far beyond their metal capacity. Laws need to be enacted.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

They are allowing minors to make life altering, irreversible and damaging choices that are far beyond their metal capacity.

Do you have any data on this?

My perception is that they're very careful with minors, and tend to use puberty blockers rather than irreversible procedures on minors.

[–]HiddenFox[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm going to cite a real life example like Kayla Lovdahl who went though surgery at 13. I won't go in-depth but she was in no condition or of any mental capacity to make this type of decision. One that she now regrets. She herself claims she was pushed in the direction of surgery. I believe this is only the tip of the ice burger and we will be seeing many more cases just like this. (There are others going on right now. I'm not going to spend the time looking it up.)

As for puberty blockers they are not reversible despite being advertised as so.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/nhs-no-longer-puberty-blockers-reversible/

To anyone with a basic understanding of biology this is obvious. Tinkering with hormones like this, believing it's a simple off/on, supply/deny switch, IT'S ABSURD! People who are pushing this belief are doing so on wishful thinking and are understating the side effects. Which brings me to why this law is needed. You have professionals acting on personal believes and social pressures not scientific, peer reviewed, objective analysis. That's what makes this so dangerous.

I do believe there is a very small section of the population that truly suffer from gender dysphoria but waiting until you are 17/18 is a reasonable, fair rule. We don't let children go to war, get tattoos or get married for good reason. They simple do not have the mental capacity to make those decisions. A life altering, irreversible, elective surgery should also fall under this.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She herself claims she was pushed in the direction of surgery.

If it's true about the 75 minute diagnosis session, and no further psychological evaluation, she is right.

But note that the data are that satisfaction with gender affirming surgery is far greater than for nearly any other surgical procedure. Personal stories stick in the mind better than unbiased evaluations with no personal hook. But the reality is that if long term satisfaction is the measure, if we set the standard for satisfaction at a level that excludes gender affirming mastectomy, we'd be pinning some fractured bones and that's it.

As for puberty blockers they are not reversible despite being advertised as so.

Relatively reversible. Compared to surgery.

gender dysphoria but waiting until you are 17/18 is a reasonable, fair rule.

Going through puberty as the wrong gender commits you to a lifetime of looking like a freak. The psychological and quality of life outcomes are serious and bad.

A life altering, irreversible, elective surgery should also fall under this.

You need to get the diagnosis correct. The vast majority of cases this is done.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All you have to do is look at all the young people who are detransitioning and telling you the horror stories of how easy it was for them to get these procedures done. In some countries yes kids as young as 13 are getting their breasts removed. They are not careful with minors, and puberty blockers are not harmless or without permanent side effects. You do realize they are used as a form of chemical castration. You honestly think that a CHILD should be allowed to take something like this?

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Long-Term Regret and Satisfaction With Decision Following Gender-Affirming Mastectomy:

In this cross-sectional study of 139 survey respondents who underwent gender-affirming mastectomy, the median satisfaction score was 5 on a 5-point scale, with higher scores indicating higher satisfaction. The median decisional regret score was 0 on a 100-point scale, with lower scores indicating lower levels of regret.

If you look at all the people undergoing medical transition, detranistioning is vanishingly rare. You could find more people who have been killed by sharks.

You honestly think that a CHILD should be allowed to take something like this?

The diagnosis need to be correct. As the statistics show that it almost always is. And one the doctors are confident of the diagnosis, they should be able to treat that to the best of our medical knowledge without breaking the law.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

My perception is that they're very careful with minors, and tend to use puberty blockers rather than irreversible procedures on minors.

You need to get the diagnosis correct. The vast majority of cases this is done.

Except it isn't. According the PEW Research center about 8% of people who transition end up de-transitioning, and suffer with irreversible damage from just taking hormone blockers, let alone being allowed to have surgery. 18 NEEDS to be the minimum age in which someone should be able to make this choice.

That percentage is just the people brave enough to come out and speak up. Most of them are doxed and harassed by their prior community for speaking out against letting people under the age of 18 make these life altering choices. Every single one of them said they had no more than a 30 minute doctors appointment to gain access to these drugs. No further counseling was involved. 15 years ago a trans person would tell you it took them YEARS to have any kind of gender reaffirming care. You have to ask yourself why they are fast tracking all of these kids now. I will tell you why, it's because these drugs are now very expensive, and doctors who push them are getting huge pharmaceutical kick backs for doing so. Either you are being willfully naïve or you're a pharmaceutical plant pushing their money agenda.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

According the PEW Research center about 8% of people who transition end up de-transitioning, and suffer with irreversible damage from just taking hormone blockers, let alone being allowed to have surgery.

I don't get that research coming up for search terms pew research and either "detransition" or "de-transitioning". Would you mind linking me to the study?

18 NEEDS to be the minimum age in which someone should be able to make this choice.

Surely a correct diagnosis is what's needed. And if that can be achieved with confidence, why would you fuck up someones life by putting their body through puberty as the wrong gender? That seems unnecessary sadistic.

That percentage is just the people brave enough to come out and speak up.

That seems poorly controlled for pew to have people self-select for a survey. Can you link me to the study?

You have to ask yourself why they are fast tracking all of these kids now.

Before that, you have to ask yourself if they are fast tracking all of these kids now.

What's your data on fast tracking?

Either you are being willfully naïve or you're a pharmaceutical plant pushing their money agenda.

I'm happy to read your paper. But i can't find it, and i know that satisfaction with gender reassignment top surgery is far greater than any other surgery, including the (much more common in US teens), breast enhancement or reduction.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2808129

Before assuming deceit, you should consider the possibility that I'm merely pushing the truth.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Here are some links if you need them: https://www.gendergp.com/detransition-facts/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#:~:text=The%20results%20published%20in%20the,the%20time%20of%20the%20survey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria#:~:text=Epidemiology,-See%20also%3A%20Transgender&text=Different%20studies%20have%20arrived%20at,are%20diagnosable%20with%20gender%20dysphoria. https://bigthink.com/health/transgender-detransition/

Surely a correct diagnosis is what's needed. And if that can be achieved with confidence, why would you fuck up someones life by putting their body through puberty as the wrong gender? That seems unnecessary sadistic.

Kids are not mentally capable of making life altering choices, and given the lack of necessary medical and mental care needed to fully access if one is truly suffering from body dysmorphia or if it's something else altogether. One 30-45 minute session, or even a two hour long session can not determine this. It takes months sometimes years to see if someone is truly suffering from body dysmorphia.

Before that, you have to ask yourself if they are fast tracking all of these kids now. What's your data on fast tracking?

My data comes from common sense. Look at the damn numbers and tell me that this isn't something big pharma is pushing. But here are some links: https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/gender-ideology-a-boon-to-big-pharma-and-threat-to-parental-rights/ https://www.allsides.com/news/2022-03-07-1044/trans-activists-funded-big-pharma-push-biased-research-promoting-medical https://www.propublica.org/article/doctors-prescribe-more-of-a-drug-if-they-receive-money-from-a-pharma-company-tied-to-it https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/03/09/new-book-follows-money-trail-insane-lie-splits-families-causes-permanent-medical-damage-authors-say/ https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

I can list a hundred of these articles that are able to make the connection between the trans movement and profit. So I ask you again, if doctors are in bed with these companies raking in the money, then how can you trust they will do what is right for the child and not for their bank account.

I have worked in the medical field for over 30 years, I know what goes on behind the scenes, and if you think for one minute that a doctor surely couldn't be capable of doing something like this, then think again, because you my friend have been deluded by them like many others have. Just because someone wears a white coat, doesn't mean they are correct in their diagnosis, nor does it mean they will always do what is in your best interest.

Before assuming deceit, you should consider the possibility that I'm merely pushing the truth.

You're pushing what you BELIEVE is the truth. There is a difference. I have been on both sides of this fence, I have been for and now against it. I used to think and believe just like you until I started doing my own research and listening to the kids and their stories. I also made many of the same assumptions you are making. Until after I attended a medical conference last year and the main focus was how to push more gender affirming care and the medications that go along with it. How to speak to parents and get them on board. It was such a slap in the face to someone like me who actually went into medicine to care about people, not use them as lab rats for medications for big pharma and get a slice of the money pie.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Here are some links if you need them

Thanks. But I was particularly interested in the Pew Research center's study showing that about 8% of people who transition end up de-transitioning. Because I find that surprising, and would be interested in where, when and how the sampling was done. (If indeed the study exists at all).

Kids are not mentally capable of making life altering choices, and given the lack of necessary medical and mental care needed to fully access if one is truly suffering from body dysmorphia or if it's something else altogether.

No one diagnoses themselves, they get a medical professional to do it. That's for Gender Dysphoria and if you show up to the doctor with a rash.

It takes months sometimes years to see if someone is truly suffering from body dysmorphia.

Yes. Most kids who present with gender dysphoria resolve, and are simply gay, and in a society in which they are led to believe that that is less acceptable than being het. In the US about 80%. It is a credit to the care taken by the medical industry that there are almost entirely correctly diagnosed and the long term satisfaction with gender affirming surgery is so underwhelmingly positive.

My data comes from common sense.

You should check that it aligns with the facts then. "Common sense" isn't as commonly sensible as you would hope.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/gender-ideology-a-boon-to-big-pharma-and-threat-to-parental-rights/

The murdoch media empire makes most of it's money manipulating public opinion for a few highly-paying clients. They're report straight falsehoods as fact on climate change, on war, and on gun control. Curiously anything Putin is pushing. I wouldn't put too much sway on their publications.

https://www.allsides.com/news/2022-03-07-1044/trans-activists-funded-big-pharma-push-biased-research-promoting-medical

I think that this article is correctly assigned that it is biased to the right.

I also think that it is misleading.

Puberty blockers are not expected to treat gender dysphoria. They're used to delay puberty until a diagnosis of gender dysphoria can be confidently made.

Yet the media has widely publicized studies funded by pharmaceutical corporations and activist groups which claim to find that “gender-affirming” medical care, such as hormones that block children from going through puberty, is good for kids’ mental health.

This is confusing puberty blockers and Masculinizing or Feminizing hormone therapy.

Gender affirming care inlcluding Masculinizing or Feminizing hormones is good for mental health. They don't block children going through puberty. GnRH analogues do that. But GnRH analogues aren't gender affirming. They just stop you producing sex hormones of any kind.

https://www.propublica.org/article/doctors-prescribe-more-of-a-drug-if-they-receive-money-from-a-pharma-company-tied-to-it

This is a problem, particularly in the US. How drugs are advertised needs to be better regulated. They probably shouldn't be advertised at all, and doctors certainly shouldn't be bribed to prescribe them.

Some doctors have tried to be especially ethical about that: As an aside, I have not talked to a rep or taken anything from a drug company in at least 23 years. I attempt to apply all evidence to my practice. It is not without its downside. They provide pizza to our local Infectious Disease conference (where the reps can outnumber the medical students) and it is painful to sit there an smell the pizza and not partake. Mmmmmmmm. Pizza.. But it's not the norm.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/03/09/new-book-follows-money-trail-insane-lie-splits-families-causes-permanent-medical-damage-authors-say/

The daily signal is published by the Heritage Foundation, activist American conservative think tank. It's opinions on this kind of stuff is going to be very slanted. Anyone can write a boo, and it doesn't need to be peer reviewed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html

Oh yeah. They're not without side effects. Like any drug, really. You only want to prescribe it if the side effects are better than what is being treated.

I used to think and believe just like you until I started doing my own research and listening to the kids and their stories.

I certainly respect people who have published research. Are you able to link to any of your papers?

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Puberty blockers are not expected to treat gender dysphoria. They're used to delay puberty until a diagnosis of gender dysphoria can be confidently made.

Yet that is what they are using them for. You can be for using them all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they were designed to be used as a form of chemical castration and the "side effects" such as sterilization are permanent. You can't just decide you don't want to take them anymore because the damage from taking them has already been done.

You comparing other drugs and their side effects is pretty disingenuous of you, because unlike other drugs side effects this just doesn't give you headaches or shortness of breath, it can cause you to have life long problems and not be able to ever have kids, even when you stop taking them. Most medications that do have side effects, those will stop when you stop taking the medication, that isn't the case with hormone blockers, and they are given to kids as young as 8-9 years old. Sorry but a 10 year old child isn't capable of determining they are the wrong sex let alone understand the lifelong implementations of it. You clearly are not someone who can't be reasoned with in terms of seeing the bigger picture because you are still defending it despite the evidence you've been given to say otherwise.

[–]SaltyTexan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well since some of the doctors that are allowing this are doing it because they are getting pharmaceutical kick back money, maybe a neutral third party needs to step in so common sense can prevail.

Look most teenagers don't feel comfortable in the body they are in, it's called puberty, we all went through it. You know what cures that, funny enough it's letting them go through puberty.. not block it. Most teenagers are also very impressionable. If we don't think they are mature enough to vote, or get tattoos, then they are not mature enough to make life altering choices about their bodies.