A principal in Florida said he couldn't confirm the Holocaust was a 'factual' event. The school district just fired him

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[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

[emotions]

Your emotions like "lol i don't consider that guy a historian!!1" are irrelevant. Here's another source:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/holocaust-remembrance-day/6-million-where-is-the-figure-from-1.5319546

I know you'll say "but they're jews so it's all a conspiracy!11".

. Yes Jews certainly died from this war famine like everybody else

Don't lie. The people running the death camps and shooting the jewish children weren't starving like that.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't mind jewish sources. Ron Unz is one of my favorite news sites. Many revisionists are jewish. I grew up very close with a Ashkenazi family and my best friend is also Jewish.

What I mind is you just posting news articles. You need to share hard evidence vetted by trained historians. Again, burden of proof is on you to prove a positive not me or other revisionists to prove a negative.

The reality here is that Jews have made the holocaust a cultural artifact and integrated it into their ethnic expression and even their spiritual zeitgeist. There's nothing a trained historian can do to dismiss someones religious belief.

Black science guy Neil Degrass Tyson always says that when he's debating a fervent flat earther or creationists he asks them if there's any evidence that can be produced that will make them change their mind. If the answer it 'no' it's really not worth debating. I've found that with a large bulk of holocaustianity followers this is also the case. You kind of remind me of the Israeli that interviewed Ernst Zundel back in the 90's. By the end of the discussion you could tell the the Israeli was basically convinced but it simply didn't matter to him. The holocaust was too central to his worldview and the interview progressed into other weird arenas. It's worth watching in it's entirety if you get a chance.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Incorrect. Really you are the revisionist according to like 99.9999% of the "trained historians" in the world. I don't mean that "the majority is true", I mean according to your own standard (people called "trained historians") that you are the revisionist.

And what is the value of your attack on the news website? Nothing. It's just a common logical fallacy used when people have no rational evidence for their beliefs.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Maybe 99% of the 'trained' historians are holocaust supporters because it's literally illegal to say anything else in 11 countries? There are laws that literally throw people in jail for researching, investigating or popularizing evidence to the contrary.

I already wrote that in my previous reply though. It's almost like you're not really engaging in anything I'm sending you. Typical shill/bad faith debater behavior.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

because it's literally illegal to say anything else in 11 countries.

Even if that was true, then in about 185 countries you can deny the holocaust and yet almost all "trained" historians think your position is totally laughable, to say the least.

But I'm not going to assume that's true. Yes there's a few countries that have laws against flying nazi/genocide flags. Yes in germany you can't endorse naziism, and maybe a few more but I'm not going to assume it's 11.

Maybe 99% of the 'trained' historians are holocaust supporters

The language you're using is not honest- they're not "supporters" because they recognize a historic event.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Even if that was true, then in about 185 countries you can deny the holocaust and yet almost all "trained" historians think your position is totally laughable, to say the least.

LOL. DuckDuckGo world opinion on the holocaust. You'll find that revisionism is the norm. The only nations that buy the holohoax are nations with Jews all over media, academics, and government structures. Also nations where Jews have shoved the holocaust into younger and younger educational structures and built holohoax conditioning centers called 'holocaust museums.'

The language you're using is not honest- they're not "supporters" because they recognize a historic event.

Stop projecting Moshe

The more I debated with them the more familiar I became with their argumentative tactics. At the outset they counted upon the stupidity of their opponents, but when they got so entangled that they could not find a way out they played the trick of acting as innocent simpletons. Should they fail, in spite of their tricks of logic, they acted as if they could not understand the counter arguments and bolted away to another field of discussion. They would lay down truisms and platitudes; and, if you accepted these, then they were applied to other problems and matters of an essentially different nature from the original theme. If you faced them with this point they would escape again, and you could not bring them to make any precise statement. Whenever one tried to get a firm grip on any of these apostles one’s hand grasped only jelly and slime which slipped through the fingers and combined again into a solid mass a moment afterwards. If your adversary felt forced to give in to your argument, on account of the observers present, and if you then thought that at last you had gained ground, a surprise was in store for you on the following day. The Jew would be utterly oblivious to what had happened the day before, and he would start once again by repeating his former absurdities, as if nothing had happened. Should you become indignant and remind him of yesterday’s defeat, he pretended astonishment and could not remember anything, except that on the previous day he had proved that his statements were correct. Sometimes I was dumbfounded. I do not know what amazed me the more – the abundance of their verbiage or the artful way in which they dressed up their falsehoods. I gradually came to hate them.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL. DuckDuckGo world opinion on the holocaust.

Even if that was true, that ("What's popular is true") is a logical fallacy and irrelevant. Assertions are valid based on evidence and how reasonable they are.

And I have already given examples over & over again. As I said earlier, you either have honesty or you don't.

Btw, you're spinning:

  • "Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated. Muslims followed closely... In no coincidence, Hindus and Muslims were also significantly less likely to have heard of the Holocaust."

—https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/the-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

There's a lot of ignorant people and that is not evidence for holocaust denial.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

That source is based on hearsay. Hoetll is known liar, hoaxer and fabricator. THis is not evidence for 6 million figure. I'm a little concerned on why you would think this is proof of the figure.

https://saidit.net/s/news/comments/19vs/a_principal_in_florida_said_he_couldnt_confirm/2upb

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

That source is based on hearsay. Hoetll is known liar, hoaxer and fabricator.

Actually, practically any time a political figure is quoted (eg by people in the media) you could call it "hearsay" as long as there was no video of it.

And (in contrast) if there was audio/video of this conversation you would call it edited and fabricated "by the jews!!!1"

I showed you endless photos of the holocaust and it's train system which shows it was a massive killing system for killing many millions of people, and you deny it like "photos are a jewish conspiracy theory!!1 because jews!!11"

I even show the photos are from multiple sides (eg multiple states) and they all match.

And what is your "argument?" It's essentially this: "photos ain't real !111 Because Jews !!!1"

THis is not evidence for 6 million figure. I'm a little concerned on why you would think this is proof of the figure.

That's not even why I quoted it. There's a bunch of people saying that the number 6m was commonly used for jews for religious reasons.

But in reality.. Even if that's true (that the number 6m was used a lot by jews) that's irrelevant if the estimate of 6m jews killed came from the nazis.

Btw, in your images (about how commonly the 6m number was used) you're often just quoting coincidences.

  • eg the estimated 6m population of jews in the ukraine.

  • Or in poland,

  • etc

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

And yet you use Hoetll, a known hoaxer and liar, who has lied in the past for money as proof that the 6 million figure is correct. I have provided census data and documents of Jewish emigration and camp records that prove the six million figure false. It is scientifically impossible, if we take into account the gas chamber myths. Not even modern gas chambers today could kill with such efficiency, that is excluding that they were not gas chambers but delousing chambers. Watch the banned documentary 'Probing the Holocaust,' for more information. Keep in mind I also think the deaths in Soviet Russia and during the Bolshevik reign are highl;y exaggerated as well. I do not believe 66 million, 50 million or 30 million died. Even the mainstream account of 25 million seems quite high in my opinion.

Now that does not mean Nazis did not execute Jews in what could be defined as a genocide. The Holocaust as defined as a burnt offering, is not what happened in the definition of the word.

There is proof of Jewish executions and the census data and emigration data, and camp records proof that nearly 2.5 million Jews died and up to 1 million were killed by the Nazis. My estimate is a little over 600,000 based on all the facts and figures I could compile. So, did Nazis murder innocent people? Yes. Were Jews targeted? Yes. Could you consider it a targeted genocide? Yes. Were 6 million killed? No. Did 4.5 million die in gas chambers? No.

And (in contrast) if there was audio/video of this conversation you would call it edited and fabricated "by the jews!!!1"

Nope I would not, I would watch it and take it with a grain of salt. I would then research it further until I could safely say it is a true account. Your are using the slippery slope argument and reductio ad absurdums.

I showed you endless photos of the holocaust and it's train system which shows it was a massive killing system for killing many millions of people, and you deny it like "photos are a jewish conspiracy theory!!1 because jews!!11"

Nope, this quote again is a fallacy, so I will just ignore it. You photos you showed were Jews, communists and anyone the Nazis deemed a threat, even if completely innocent in concentration and work labor camps. These photos were taken at the VERY END of the war, when Germany had a food blockade and railines to the camps were bombed. No food was coming in nor were medical supplies in a collpased German economy. They are emaciated because of typhus that killed MILLIONS. The lice hides in the cloths which Is why they took them off. I went to the Holocaust museum and they were using an allied bombed camps as evidence of bodies burned in a crematorium. They were terror bombed by the allies. But that didn't stop the very profitable holocaust industry from lying, which does a diservice to the common Jew.

I even show the photos are from multiple sides (eg multiple states) and they all match.

No you didn't. And what does it prove? It proves Nazis took Jews and others away from there homes and put them in concentration camps. Probably executing hundreds of thousands via work orders over the years. That is what those pictures prove. They do not prove the six million figure.

And what is your "argument?" It's essentially this: "photos ain't real !111 Because Jews !!!1"

That's not my argument ^ ^ ^ Another fallacy by you. I will also ignore this quote as well.

That's not even why I quoted it. There's a bunch of people saying that the number 6m was commonly used for jews for religious reasons.

Well, these people only used media references but many politicans and communists in Bolshevik Russia also used the holocaust and 6 million figure burnt offering well before WW2. That of course, I don't really get into, because it proves little. Facts and figures prove the six million figure to be a lie nonetheless, but clearly 2.5 million Jews died in my estimate.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

It's circular reasoning to say someone is "hoaxer" is evidence that their claims are a hoax. Your 'argument' here could be endless historic events where you just declare the people quoted to be hoax selling liars.

Your assumptions about how fast the nazis may have killed people are not relevant. Even if "modern" gas chambers work extremely slow, that doesn't mean a government couldn't build a much quicker system for killing many millions of people.

You're going on and on, but all you have is assumptions that you seem to believe are evidence of your other assumptions.

And your motive here, to say anything to get people to reject the holocaust, is obvious. So you attempt to show signs of "moderation" as if that hides that you are just another holocaust denier.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hearsay is hearsay. That's where the six million figure originated. Census data does not back it up.

I don't assume anything. I looked at all the reports, census data, Jewish emigration data, camp work orders, etc,. And could not even come close to the six million figure. You mind sharing proof and physical evidence of this figure and/or debunk my posts above?

Clearly you assume the figure, I don't assume anything. My research has led me to a different conclusion.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your "research" is assuming the nazi's work orders accurately showed how many people they killed when (in reality) their goal was to hide these events. You are just making assumptions.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And census data and all the other hindreds of population reports.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Holocaust implies burnt offering. Did 6 million Jews die in a burnt offering? No. I'm not denying a genocide, I'm wuestioning the figures, and they're wrong. Truth fears no investigation. My research led me to this truth and one can be imprisoned for it. Revisionists were detained and imprisoned for questioning these figures only to be right thriry years later.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Holocaust implies burnt offering

You've been totally misinformed, please read this:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-word-holocaust-history-and-meaning_n_1229043

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The original meaning was burnt offering and was used as such by the Bolsheviks and Soviet propganda official during the war before any real provable assertions coupd be made. Yes it changed over time, but the use of it is wrong.

It should be called a genocide.

[–]Anticapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

as such by the Bolsheviks and Soviet propganda official during the war before any real provable assertions coupd be made.

Did you not read the article I sent you?

  • The lower-case “holocaust” has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century, according the Oxford English Dictionary. Before World War II, the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to refer to the genocide of Armenians during World War I.

—https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-word-holocaust-history-and-meaning_n_1229043

And census data and all the other hindreds of population reports.

All the population data from the nazi regime should be treated with great skepticism. And even if there was population data from other sources (before and after the nazi regime) which showed the jewish population shrinking was less than 6m there could be many other reasons for that, plus sometimes the population estimates are just flat out wrong. eg if the jewish people felt they were victims of prejudice (eg in pre ww2 germany) they might not have sought to be very public about their presence, especially to the government & ruling class.

[–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Okay, well we will agree to disagree on the six million figure. Through 5 years of research I could find no proof for the 6 million figure only hearsay from known liars. The proof I found was not of a genocide deniers pleasure in discovering a revisionist history, no, I simply looked through population and emigration reports, camp records from the Germans and Soviets, and Switzerland, census data on detained Jews, etc, and so, I like other revisionists came to the figure 2.5 million and nearly 1 million who were exterminated and executed by the Nazis and to a lesser extent the Soviets. That is 5 years of research and I tried very hard to prove that 6 million died, this just isn't the case. I based this for a long time on the 4.5 million gassed figure which was propagandized for thirty years before mainstream scholars had to lower the number by three fold, and in some cases 5 fold in various camps, which might have been delousing chambers to begin with. SInce we can't trust most sources and there are estimates that are under and over exaggerated, I researched these claims. And I, personally came to a 2.5 million figure.

Now as for the original definition of the Holocaust. Your source says the lower-case “holocaust” has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century.

So, they certainly are not sure when this definition was used for other purposes. Though they have an idea.

It should be noted that a holocaust is a religious animal sacrifice that is completely consumed by fire. The word derives from the Ancient Greek holokaustos, "whole" and καυστός "burnt", with rough breathing), which is used solely for one of the major forms of sacrifice, "burnt offering" in Ancient Israel.

A "burnt offering" – from the verb "to cause to ascend," hence "burn") is a type of Biblical sacrifice in which the entire sacrifice is completely burnt, consumed totally by fire. It was used by the ancient Israelites. And might have been used for this genocide to denote a sacrafice of Jews for the founding of Israel, as biblical prophecy. It isn't too crazy to say this considering many Zionists, even those who were Nazis, were quite outspoken in advocating for a major pogrom or war that would push the Jewish diaspora eastward towards Israel, exactly what happened. Hitler in fact claims in Mein Kampf that Zionism was a great ideology, for obvious reasons.

So, they make it know in their memiors that a suffering must take place, and that antisemities must be our friends. The suffering and death had to take place according to them.