all 4 comments

[–]unagisongsBurn down Reddit! 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's going to take decades to unravel this clusterfuck. The people directly involved will likely be long dead before anything real happens. Ukraine as an independent functioning nation won't exist for generations. I predict deep misery for the Ukrainians the moment the US decides to give up on invading Russia. They literally will collapse without a steady money supply from the US. I expert a severe partitioning will occur just as Germany experienced after WWII.

[–]chakokat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Ukrainian constitution was originally set up to exclude the possibility of Ukraine joining any military alliances, and that was one of the main reasons Ukraine was allowed to leave the USSR in the first place. Subsequently, this proviso was removed from the Ukrainian constitution, and President Zelensky in particular was making loud noises about wanting to join NATO.

Correct. But the part that you don’t say is that the elected President of Ukraine was regime changed from office by the US ( Maiden Coup ) and then the constitution was changed and Nazi Banderites were installed in positions of political and military power. President (in name only) Zelensky reads the script that the US/CIA give him ( he is an actor by profession after all ) because he is not making any decisions on his own.

So, is their some arrangement that could be found that would effectively amount to common ground between President Putin of Russia, and President Zelensky of Ukraine,

That "arrangement” was made in Turkey in March 2022 and was negated by the US and UK when they sent Boris Johnson to Kiev to tell Zelensky to break the ceasefire. Israel and Turkey officials present both confirm that a deal to stop the war was reached by Russia and Ukraine. After that debacle Zelensky passed a decree that made it illegal for anyone in Ukraine government to negotiate with Russia as long as Putin is President. So the oft stated US goal of regime change in Russia was reaffirmed by Zelensky with that decree.

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/ukraine-zelensky-signs-decree-rule-out-negotiation-russia-vladimir-putin-impossible-11664876727245.html

You are ignoring that the US/NATO and EU have used Ukraine as a proxy to fight and destroy Russia. Russia and the rest of the world clearly see this now.

Russia has survived the economic sanctions war and has also defeated Ukraine/NATO militarily. They have no incentive to now join the EU. They have found new markets for their oil/gas/resources. Russia has proven that it can survive without the EU. It is now up to the EU to survive without Russia.

When the EU and NATO are brought to their knees Russia might then consider negotiating. Remember the document sent to the US, NATO and the EU in December 2021 about its security concerns before the SMO began. The US/NATO/EU refused to discuss them with Russia at that time.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well as an EU citizen, not by choice, if I had a voice (which I don't) I'd demand that the denazification part of the SMO be a prerequisite for this to happen.

But that's just me. Apparently cheering on nazi and nazi-adjacent ideologies is all the rage amongst establishment types right about now.

We already have Germany in the economic shitter and re-militarizing (who the fuck thought that was a good idea?) so... maybe not add too much oil onto this?

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think Putin said early on that they would not see a problem with Ukraine joining the EU. More recently he and others in the Russian government have spoken about regime change in Kiev as a necessary prerequisite to the cessation of hostilities, but this is understandable given the Kiev regime's pro-Banderite extremism.

Many analysts also think Russia intends to take back Odessa and Kharkiv as these are primarily ethic Russian or Russian-speaking populations.

As for EU membership, that seems to be the consolation prize being held out to Ukraine since NATO membership has been effectively ruled out. But there's no guarantees that would be easy to accomplish, there are member states that have said they would not support Ukraine's accession, and particularly now it would be more of a millstone around the EU's neck, which is essentially an economic alliance or was before the current conflict and Brussels accruing more power to itself to dictate to member states on non-economic matters. What exactly does Ukraine have to offer at this point other than a black hole of economic dependency? Most of the areas with industrial and agricultural capacity is now under Russia's control.