A sure-fire can't-fail US exit ramp from Ukraine

submitted by spindz from (self.WayOfTheBern)

If you've really been following the Ukraine conflict closely, rather than just swallowing the MSM pablum, you probably know how badly Ukraine is losing. (One big tell was all the talk about "game-changing weapons". Ask yourself why the side we were all told was winning needed game-changing all the time.)

With Nazis and hate programming over 30 years, the US succeeded in turning Ukraine into a weapon to strike against Russia. Unfortunately Russia has proven too tough to crack and now the US weapon, Ukraine, is falling apart. Consequently you hear "leaders" in the US beginning to talk of an off ramp, an exit strategy. They have floated ideas such as a demilitarized zone, a frozen conflict, a negotiated truce.

The problem with all the off ramp ideas it the assumption that Russia will just go along with them. But Russia has zero reason to go along with any of these off-ramp ideas. Leaving the US looking at another embarrassing defeat in the near future.

But there is a way to sneak away from the Ukraine debacle scot-free. It doesn't require Russian cooperation at all. And to top it off, it relies on one of America's specialties.

The simple answer is regime change. Have the CIA overthrow the current Ukraine government again. Only this time replace it with an anti-Nazi, pro-neutrality government. As long as the CIA role is concealed in this, the US can say the war with Russia was only lost because the Ukrainians "gave up".

Now look at the economics. The Russians themselves will undertake to rebuild Ukraine. It will take years, perhaps decades, for Ukraine to get back on its feet, rebuild its population, de-mine its farmlands, with Russian assistance. This won't cost the US one red cent.

And a generation from now, when the Ukrainian youth have forgotten their history again, the US can start again with hate programming and ultimately turn Ukraine into a Russian enemy (and attack dog) again. Why not? They did it before, there's no reason they can't do it again.

Yes this is surely a dirty trick. But as they say, its only embarrassing if you are caught doing it.

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[–]sdl5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ok first, Russia does not WANT western Ukr. Second, they won't rebuild jack where they do not have full autonomous control established. Third, the Jews- no joke, in Ukr in Israel in UK in Canada in US- will NOT GO ALONG. And many many of them are in positions to make those decisions or crush anyone who proceeds to try. Fifth, and likely the most important, is that neither the Biden WH nor the Deep State want to stop.

[–]spindz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So we must disregard all the talk of exit ramps started by the US in the first place? And the US will just go ahead and swallow another humiliating public military defeat? Finally, who is in the position to stop a covert CIA operation, as this is proposed to be, or even detect that it is going on? For example is there hard evidence lying around proving the CIA did the 2014 coup, nearly 10 years later? If a new coup in Ukraine happens tomorrow, neither you nor I nor anyone else will be sure what its cause was, even if we have our suspicions.

[–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For example is there hard evidence lying around proving the CIA did the 2014 coup, nearly 10 years later?

For a benchmark to go by, how long did it take to verify the CIA's involvement in Iran in 1952?

[–]BerryBoy1969It's not red vs. blue - It's capital vs. you 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The problem with the West, and the U.S. in particular, is the fact that it no longer has any face to save in an increasingly multi polar world. The fact that it has it's ass hanging out for the world to see in Ukraine, is just a symptom of the psychopathy of the ultra rich, who hide behind the governments run by the weak and corrupt whores they bought to do their bidding.

They've created a clusterfuck of weak and incompetent managers, failing upwards all along, to the point where it's raining idiots from the high places logic would normally dictate be inhabited by competent, qualified, knowledgeable people.

If there's any off ramp to be had in Ukraine, Russia will designate what exit the U.S. and it's Europoodles are authorized to use, and the time it will be available for their use.

The whole mess is sometimes explained as a result of a miscalculation by the western élites. The situation, however, is far worse than that: The sheer dysfunctionality and the prevalence of institutional entropy is so obvious that there is little need to say more.

The dysfunction of the West runs far deeper than just the situation around the Ukraine project. It is absolutely everywhere. Public and private institutions, especially those of the state, find it difficult to get anything done; government policies resemble hastily drawn-up wish lists, which everyone knows will have little practical effects. That is why policymakers have a new priority: ‘not losing control of the narrative’.

Hartmut Rosa’s ‘line’: Frenetic standstill seems particularly apt.

Will people weep for the West? No …

[–]spindz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I should have been more explicit with the details of this evil plan. It allows the US to save face. Now you have to decide whether it is more important to hand the US an embarrassing public defeat, and maybe risk them escalating to nukes, or whether it is better to quietly end the conflict, save hundreds of thousands of lives, and put the genii back in the bottle. To me its a simple calculation.

[–]BerryBoy1969It's not red vs. blue - It's capital vs. you 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Now you have to decide whether it is more important to hand the US an embarrassing public defeat, and maybe risk them escalating to nukes, or whether it is better to quietly end the conflict, save hundreds of thousands of lives, and put the genii back in the bottle.

We have no say in what's important, or not. Those decisions are made by our government's owners, and they couldn't care less about saving hundreds of thousands of lives that aren't their own. Whether or not they're in close enough contact with reality to understand that they won't have time to flee to their super secure survival bunkers, and most of them will perish along with the hoi polloi they show so much contempt for, remains to be seen.

At this point in my life, our owners have given me no reason to believe their rationality extends one nanometer beyond their immediate wants and needs. Humanity is merely an inconvenient conglomeration of useless dependents to them, that need to be culled, and the worthy, properly managed.

[–]spindz[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So basically this plan won't work because our leaders are insane suicidal psychopaths who don't listen to us? This may very well be true. Still I think this covert exit ramp idea is at least worth discussing, maybe someone with a spark of sanity may come across it.

While we look on, here's a blast radius plotting tool to play with: https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=800&lat=40.7306&lng=-73.9866&hob_opt=2&hob_psi=5&hob_ft=9511&casualties=1&ff=50&psi=20,5,1&zm=10

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The problem with all the off ramp ideas it the assumption that Russia will just go along with them. But Russia has zero reason to go along with any of these off-ramp ideas.

Accepted US practice is to threaten to nuke the other side unless they agree to freeze the conflict or not fight back or whatever. That's why USA has threatened to use nukes in every war it has fought since WW2. That's how they managed to 'freeze' the war in Korea, despite the fact that they were losing, badly.

Except Russia was a party to that freeze in Korea, they know how USA uses their nukes to threaten the entire world, and Putin is trying the novel approach of just not answering the phone. So USA can't threaten to nuke him if they can't reach him, and in any case Russia has a better nuclear arsenal than USA, except they don't go around threatening to nuke Grenada and Panama every other year.

[–]spindz[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If I understand what you are saying, then Russia is somewhat more resistant to the threat of nukes than most other nations. Which in turn makes Russia more immune to off ramp pressures of this kind.

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russia has a couple of advantages in this regard. They are the world leaders in anti-missile technology, they have for decades now, since Soviet times, protected their cities with generations of anti-missile batteries, plus they're the largest country on Earth with a population spread out over vast distances. Plus, when USA/Obama relaunched the nuclear arms race, Russia took it seriously and immediately set to work on their hypersonic glide vehicles and their new generations of ICBMs, besides building numerous new nuclear subs. The only area they are behind is in aircraft to deliver nukes, but those are obsolete anyway.

So yes, Russia is in a much better position than most to tell USA to shove their nukes up their own backside.

[–]unagisongsBurn down Reddit! 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One big tell was all the talk about "game-changing weapons".

The true believers in Nazi Germany believed their superior new weapons would over come superior tactics and man power at the Battle of Kursk. The west can't help themselves sliding face first into the same shit.

But Russia has zero reason to go along with any of these off-ramp ideas.

Last time Russia made their own off-ramp into Berlin.

The simple answer is regime change. Have the CIA overthrow the current Ukraine government again.

The simple answers lead to complex consequences.

In November 1963, President Ngô Đình Diệm and the Personalist Labor Revolutionary Party of South Vietnam were deposed by a group of CIA-backed Army of the Republic of Vietnam officers who disagreed with Diệm's handling of the Buddhist crisis and the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong threat to South Vietnam. In South Vietnam, the coup was referred to as Cách mạng 1-11-63 ("1 November 1963 Revolution").[3]

~

Ukrainian youth have forgotten their history again

Eastern Europeans don't forget their history. Which is why there is a war happening at all. Ukraine has no business fighting Russia in any logical capacity. It's a centuries grudge match between old enemies.

But as they say, its only embarrassing if you are caught doing it.

The US government is way past the point of embarrassment for it's atrociously incompetent foreign policy.

[–]spindz[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Last time Russia made their own off-ramp into Berlin.

Heh. I'd like to see it. Too bad such off-ramps are so expensive.

The simple answers lead to complex consequences.

Absolutely. And this solution isn't so easy to implement either. I've assumed the CIA already has assets in place throughout the Kiev government to have a shot at doing this. And supposed it failed? Well actually not much would happen. Assuming Zelensky survived the putsch, its not like the Nazis could punish the US for this, since they will still be dependent on US funding. In fact probably the quickest way to regime change would be to offer bribes to Zel and his Nazi clan, cash and safe passage elsewhere.

The US government is way past the point of embarrassment for it's atrociously incompetent foreign policy.

Oh man I wish this were true. In reality the US government stranglehold on MSM is such that the average passive US news consumer has no idea of the great majority of embarrassments. They are even spun as tough US diplomacy.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Only this time replace it with an anti-Nazi, pro-neutrality government.

They'll likely have to get rid of the Nazis first to keep the new regime from being under constant threat and coercion.

And after they manage this, they should vamoose. Totally, completely, with no further connections to/with/within Ukraine.

[–]spindz[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My personal favorite is evac helicopters that disappear, never to be seen again. Saves money on bribes too. As for the CIA itself disappearing, I assume you are funning me. Even if the US collapses financially and shuts down its farflung bases and CIA stations, most of the CIA field agents will just find someone else to work for.

I didn't actually mention this part, but it is by no means clear that the US will still be the same place by the time Russia has spruced up Ukraine again.

[–]unagisongsBurn down Reddit! 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Like trying to clean a septic tank while your neck deep in filth.