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How many more years do you think it'll take for them to look at HRT and its subsequent surgeries the same we look back on lobotomies?(self)

41 points40 points43 points submitted by stoptheearth

Since the detrans movement is still getting backlash and all the "you should have done your research" "it wasn't for you doesn't mean it never works" crap

all 85 comments

IkeConn 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

As soon as the first malpractice lawsuits end in ginormous cash settlements.

ClassroomPast6178 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

It’ll be difficult to win a malpractice suit as the doctors can claim they were following best practice by following the WPATH guidelines. I suspect that that’s why WPATH exists at all.

The people who win cases will be the ones who show that doctors and psychologists did things they shouldn’t have done, like recording a gender dysphoria diagnosis when none existed.

They might have some chance if they can argue about consent and either failures of informed consent or, in the cases of children, that they were unable to consent (unless the parents consented on their behalf).

So, whilst I wouldn’t rule it out, the malpractice lawsuit route is fraught with difficulty and you probably shouldn’t expect to see huge awards any time soon.

Such a shame I’d love to see that Irish yeet the teet surgeon reduced to serving in McDonald’s.

IkeConn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Then get the WPATH giudelines thrown out. There are thousands of lawyers that would love to make their bones on a juicy lawsuit like this.

ClassroomPast6178 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun 8 months ago

That’s not how it works though. WPATH is recognised as “the experts” so a doctor following WPATH would be able to say they were following the guidance they were given by the experts. And if you’re following the accepted expert guidance, you’re not committing malpractice.

Guidance can change as evidence builds, which is why the various European health services have moved away from treating children with puberty blockers but even they follow WPATH for adults currently. When the evidence alters guidance the doctors still haven’t committed malpractice just like doctors who performed lobotomies in good faith didn’t. It’s the nature of medicine.

I think we may see a body of evidence build and this will alter guidance, this will then, combined with a passing of the fad, cause a massive decrease in the numbers of troons and especially troonettes.

IkeConn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

"Experts" are often wrong and end up on the wrong side when things go south.

alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Note to self: if I ever accidentally dismember someone's cock, just point to the WPATH and go "but this thing says eunuchs are wonderful! See, they even have a link to a website full of lovely stories about them!"

DirewolfGhost 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

"Just following orders"

Q-Continuum-kin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I don't know if this would work but I'm guessing that WPATH can't be used directly for malpractice. Its some weird international organization which almost makes it extrajudicial in nature.

As far as I'm concerned, WPATH is obviously just an activist organization with no medical credibility and doctors should know better than to follow anything they say.

LyingSpirit472 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Even that won't stop them, given how many TRAs are also avowed communists.

If malpractice suits happen, the communist side of them will say "ha ha money vacuum go brrrr". and they'll even flat out say "hold the transition against your doctor forever and if you want to afford something slightly expensive like a PS5 or a really nice anime figurine, just tell your doctor you'll sue for malpractice if he doesn't buy it for you and use the "losing $500-1k is cheaper than $100k and you lose your license" to turn the doctor into your own personal sugar daddy!"

The only thing that will stop the train and cause this is if courts start to find the snarts who openly groom kids personally responsible if they detrans and they go after those people- even a "yes, the average snart doing this won't have much money" is cancelled out by the "one snart who's forced to lose every penny they will ever earn or ever hope to earn down to 'they find a penny on the ground they are required to send it to this person' will stop them dead."

Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun 8 months ago

When the TRAs officially declare medical transition transphobic. Which they're doing already.

LyingSpirit472 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

On the plus side, we're about a second from them saying 'the very act of being trans is transphobic because it's saying they aren't a natural, biological person of the group they claim to be and there's some difference between them and other members.'

Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

That's not a plus. There's a tiny percentage of people who actually need those treatments, one of which is me. They're just going to do a 180 like they always do and mock and shit on disadvantaged people. Already /r/MtF is just a bunch of transvestites going "skirt go spinny!" and /r/FtM is all "enbys" with blue hair and self-diagnosed everything and no hormones, and you're not allowed to state the obvious because that's "gatekeeping". I keep seeing all these people talking about how much they love their "girldick"; like I get it, I barely mind my genitals myself, but to actively like them, let alone LOVE them, while supposedly being trans women? Who probably only took just enough estrogen to get boobies to "play" with, if any at all. And oh God, don't even get me started on how much I hate people talking about trans like it's a good thing; and they treat it as some sort of holy "diversity".

LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Good point, I agree with all of that part. The goal would not to be to actually hurt real people who need it, but to hopefully separate the real people who have this problem from these bastards using it as their high school clique and leave them with nowhere to run or hide until they find their next group to claim sanctuary in for their excuse to be special. The things you mention are what I hate about those bastards and want to see them get what they deserve.

alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

You don't need any treatment. Trans isn't a thing. You're balking at your fellow transmembers because their narcissism is making you acutely aware of your own main character syndrome and it's embarrassing you.

Unless you're trolling. I think you might be.

Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

a tendency among people to view themselves as the lead character in their own life story

Isn't that literally everyone? Who else would be the main character?

wylanderuk 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Look up the history of "truscum", that ship sailed years ago.

xoenix 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

When the aesthetic dies. When the chicks who think they're cool for cutting their boobs off, working out to develop pecs, doing their best impression of gymbros are sad and old looking (which will be late 20s for many.) When they can no longer hang out with the youth and begin to embody the "hey fellow kids" meme. When the next generation looks at them as a warning sign, like how kids looked at burnt out hippies. When corporations move on from diversity training to the next corporate cult fad and these skilless parasites are out of a job.

MyLongestJourney 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

When corporations move on from diversity training to the next corporate cult fad

I wonder what that would be. Transhumanism is my safer bet.We will see corporations sponsoring human "cyborgs" or something. "I always felt like a robot inside".

ClassroomPast6178 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Incest, love is love, bro. I’ve actually seen some people saying shit about that already.

makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

About 5-10 years after the right stops pushing against it.

I think the writing is already on the wall to the point they would see it if they didn't dismiss it all as right wing propaganda. They are obstinate and unable to see it specifically because they are able to dismiss their thoughts and logic as evil/bigoted. Remember the way the left treats bigotry is identical to the way the catholics treat original sin or satanic temptations. As such they can dismiss common sense as heresy.

OuroborosTheory 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

or like how nobody spoke up against the "hang the Duke Lacrosse players!" "skyscrapers are phallic!" radfems except the alt-right (until 2014 when they went against the trans women and were dethroned as though the campus admins had never forced everyone to take to their pants-on-head-crazy ranting as policy for decades)

Rowling was considered cutting-edge progressive until she said people with dysphoria should get paid treatment and have their pronouns respected BUT ... ; "raceblind" is now racist, as is teaching that slavery was bad for the US; Robin Di Angelo and Peggy MacIntosh got dumped the same way 2020

makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun 8 months ago

Bingo, and relevant username. The snake is eating itself to infinity.

OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

yeah, it's a spin on "horseshoe theory" which allows too much of the median fallacy: Russell Brand and Tucker Carlson may go on each other's shows, but we also have supercentrist Hillary Clinton's 8-year rant about how the Soviets have come back and destroyed everything that makes America "America" with invisible brain-frying rays and memes of Bernie Sanders in a Speedo

(and you're stuck on a site that doesn't even let you downvote!)

makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I kinda got that, however I think there is also a pretty apt metaphor here of the two sides eating themselves in perpetuity too, the left does so often JUST as the right adopts the policies they used to hold, much like your example of racial blindness or tolerance. This seems to accurately describe what has happened at the extremes of modern politics these days. Though I kinda see how visually that doesn't quite make sense if you are talking about both the left and the right.

Also I think that you have to be careful with some logical fallacies like slippery slope and median fallacy. The fact they CAN be a logical fallacy doesn't mean they are. Generally speaking when you average people's beliefs they really do tend to be correct as a collective more often than even the most expert tend to be as individuals. This is why wiki-style crowd sourcing has been so effective. However awareness of the fallacy is still necessary because sometimes they are not, and you can't put as much faith in crowd sourcing as most would intuitively feel they can.

I think when it comes to politics another major problem is that we have over simplified politics to the point people believe right and left are actual things instead of just mostly arbitrary distinctions designed to attempt to break society up into left and right. The political compass at least partially addresses this, however each issue is another dimension where people can differ and sometimes issues themselves can be multidimensional. The left and right really only exist as political entities and anyone who feels the fully ascribe to either side is either a statistical fluke or a lemming who hasn't given much original thought to any of it.

Also I don't think Hilary is a centrist at all, and I used to know her personally (Bill was a close friend of my uncle and he used to stay at his house all the time in the 90s and early 2000s). She's a leftist that lost touch with the people just around the time her husband became most relevant. She's a second wave feminist icon trying to exist in a 4th wave intersectional left. She has none of the natural talent for charisma and The one compliment I will give her is something that I think makes her and Obama seem centrist, which is that they aren't part of modern obstinance politics where people refuse to even listen to alternative viewpoints. They both represent the last time where left wing politicians and political discourse made actual efforts to try to find compromise and engage in real discussions. The right followed suit soon after. That isn't to say that she was good at it, she wasn't, but she at least makes an effort.

Anyways, I love the username, it's definitely a great elaboration or fine tuning of horseshoe theory. Sorry for the text dump, your comment just really got me thinking, and I like that!

alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I still remember when people rolled their eyes at Rowling for being too woke for retroactively gaying Dumbledore

OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

ironically that started the spiral that ended with her becoming an outcast--"wizards just shit themselves where they stood until the 18th century! the goblins are Swiss! Nagini's a mode-locked Korean witch! yes, all males are entitled threats! even if they're gay--or wearing a dress!"

these were all things that USED to be the terminally-woke positions they'd try and get you fired over, but the "standing wave" of sophomore girls after taking their first class about The Issues

this is also why "SJW" was always a sarcastic term: they weren't activists (who had several of these problems), there was a specific combination of "campus protesters with no challenges in life and nothing at stake," purity spirals, and complete lack of actual outcome or basic self-preservation that only coalesced under Obama (who I count as a consequence as well as a cause of this--even 2008 I remember asking the other students WHAT he'd said in the speech they were raving so much about and they couldn't even remember: that's some Harold Saxon shit right there)

William_World 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

that's like liberals being pro vax. They only do it because they see conservatives that are against it.

makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I definitely think that's the cause of the vitriol.

OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

like even CVS's casual notice ("hey, both the virus and the antigen like to stick to the heart and blood vessels, so talk to your doctor if your WBCs tend to flip out and send you to the ER") would NEVER be allowed on cable or network teevee, and got you banned on Twitter before Musk's Xanax-fueled Shadow People told him to buy it out

less political, but I saw a story about someone in Bumfuck who charged a few bux to get the shot in somebody's place and ended up with like 50 injections in him at once: this reminded me of James Randi's absolutely not a cult because the bearded wizard is just right every time fans "overdosing" on homeopathic vials: nobody's tried trolling them that way; the same people cheer whenever someone mentioning "horse dewormer" gets banhammered but will gladly take Peruvian fever-tree woo-woo for headaches, apply Dalmatian chrysanthemum mumbo-jumbo to their gardens like some damn hippie, and cause the Second Dark Age by trying to cure cancer with Cape periwinkle and Pacific yew

(also a personal note, I don't have a dog in these fights, I just had my gallbladder yanked out instead of my mom's prescription of "drink apple cider vinegar WITH THE MOTHER" to dangerous levels)

alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I did it because I'm anti-getting-a-respiratory-disease.

William_World 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 7 months ago

good luck with that, it doesn't stop it but does give heart problems

alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 7 months ago

Seemed to work, and my heart's great.

ID10T 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I think about 10 years.

QueenBread 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Give it a generation or two. The kids of all these genderspecials and pro-alphabet soup supporters are going to turn all conservative by reaction. I am more concerned about some long-term consequences of this social climate: in the last years, I've seen a sudden spike in mysoginy and a sudden social change in how making mysoginist comments is suddenly cool.

wylanderuk 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Bitch please,, you are two steps away from claiming sunrise is misogyny because some chick got sunburn and went mantel on some dude that offered her sunscrean because its "mansplaining"

QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Yeah, I know imbeciles like you think women hate them because they're men, and not because they're imbeciles.

wylanderuk 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Funny thing being you numbnutted fuckwit I get on fine with the vast majority women I run into., fucktarded rad fems like yourself are not representative of all women.

QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I get on fine with the vast majority women I run into

"Run into" being the keyword here. Yeah, women tend to act nice to weirdos out of fear they can become dangerous. They're not gonna become your friends tho.

Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

In practice you treat them as one and the same.

QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Says the nutcase, telling himself I don't treat him like an idiot because he's an idiot. No, no, sure, it's because I hate men.

tyranicaloverlord 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 8 months ago

Whoda thunk that the when people look back on the 2020s the troons will be so glaring in pictures, just as the people in parachute pants where in the 1980s.

I give it until about 2027.

OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

reminds me of this picture: the drag queen's hair, outfit, makeup are all garish to the point of clownhood--but it's deliberate, even sarcastic, and everything's ... clean

to the right is a frumpy schlub with visibly ratty hair, a boneless Ben Franklin face, the physique and posture of a bag of potatoes, and stuffed into clothes an 8yo girl would end up wearing on laundry day

alladd 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun 8 months ago

yeah for AGPs they only put in as much effort as is needed to motivate masturbation, which isn't much. the cutoff is "extra curvy piece of driftwood" like in rick and morty

OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

funny thing is Ed Wood and Bunny Breckenridge (descendant of the Confederacy's presidential candidate before it seceded) were raging AGPs, and yet could still act with SOME taste

I think it all started when men stopped wearing hats all the time outside

alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Well or maybe there just wasn't much coverage of their behavior. I have no idea how accurate the Burton film was but Ed Wood seemed at the very least willing to torch personal and professional relationships just to cross dress.

tyranicaloverlord 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

OuroborosTheory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

worse when you found out what the guy on the right did

jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I think the thing you need to remember is a lot of these TRA want to be part of something, be victims, be special and get attention more than they want to be trans.

Once the detrans have more of this emotional currency vast numbers of the TRA saying "you should have done your research" and bullying people today will switch sides and claim they were also harmed.

This will all happen very quickly when it starts. It could all be over in a couple of years.

alladd 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Next there will be "detrans" kids who never transitioned, just went as they/them for a week then hit up TikTok to talk about their "detrans journey"

jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

This already happens. They have been told they have to call themselves "desisters" so as not to water down the brand.

alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I saw some e-girl thot on Instagram talking about how she was "comfortable with her transgender self" and "didn't want any surgeries". She was literally just a normal feminine woman who dressed in feminine clothes and posted her tits but went by they/them.

jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

The point is to make no sense so they queer the gender norms, destroy society and bring about a communist utopia.

stoptheearth[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Honestly I would prefer this somehow. It will be followed by waves of "we fucking told you so" and I'd love to see how they defend themselves then.

jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Easy they will just say "you said it in a mean way" or "you were bad people so it's your fault people didn't listen to you".

alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

We'll never look at them like lobotomies because the people who got lobotomies didn't choose to do it to themselves.

clownworlddropout 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I can't see this malpractice lasting much longer, maybe 2 years max until it's relegated to an age-restricted cosmetic procedure and then steadily starts to fall out of fashion.

JulienMayfair 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

I think it's already under way. I've heard of some medical insurance companies no longer wanting to insure doctors who perform gender-reassignment surgeries. Reaction against it will intensify as people have to live with the long-term consequences of the treatment they've received over the last 10 years.

Adventurous_Ad6212 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

We need hrt in order to finally abolish women.

wylanderuk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun 8 months ago

Not soon enough...