Trans activists use historic identities like Kathoey from Thailand to justify trans politics. However, some say Kathoey means "effeminate gay men".

submitted by chris3991m from (en.wikipedia.org)

all 14 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Femaleisnthateful 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

All of the 'third genders' are simply labels for effeminate gay men, designed to protect the category of 'man' by pushing the homos out. Many of these third genders are relegated to lives of prostitution and otherwise marginalized.

They generally don't experience 'gender dysphoria ' nor seek out castration, but thanks to the influence of western gender proselytizing, it's becoming more common. After all some countries permit surgical transition where homosexuality is illegal.

[–]beazer12beard 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Two-Spirit:

The term Two Spirit (original form chosen) was created in 1990 at the Indigenous lesbian and gay international gathering in Winnipeg, and "specifically chosen to distinguish and distance Native American/First Nations people from non-Native peoples".[4] The primary purpose of coining a new term was to encourage the replacement of the outdated and considered offensive, anthropological term, berdache.

Berdache:

Before the late twentieth-century, non-Native (i.e. non-Native American/Canadian) anthropologists used the term berdache (/bərˈdæʃ/), in a very broad manner, to identify an indigenous individual fulfilling one of many mixed gender roles in their tribe. Most often these anthropologists applied the term to any male whom they perceived to be homosexual, bisexual, or effeminate by Western social standards

[–]Femaleisnthateful 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I never understood 'two spirit'. There are I-don't-know-how-many distinct Indigienous tribes in North America. Why would they all recognize the term 'two spirit'? It's such an obvious example of Western colonial imposition.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's funny. It could have been men sewing clothes or something and the people of the tribe had no idea they were being "gay" in the eyes of European settlers gendered eyes.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Tailors, pattern cutters, weavers, haberdashers, milliners and other roles in the manufacture of clothing being men isn’t and has never been alien to Europeans.

I’m struggling to come up with a “job” that would possibly make Europeans think that someone was a bit light in the loafers (as in roles in Europe only done by women, never men). Cooking, nope. Gathering, nope. Farming, nope. Leatherwork, nope. Hunting, nope. Clothing manufacture, nope. Jewellery manufacture, nope. Fishing, nope. Net care, nope.

What’s to bet that the people called “berdache” were dressed in women’s clothing and treated as women because they were gay, just like that group in Samoa. They’re not trans or a third gender, it’s just that a subsistence society just doesn’t have a place for gay men.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What’s to bet that the people called “berdache” were dressed in women’s clothing and treated as women because they were gay

Yeah that's how Hijras are in India which people are now trying to use as proof of x y or z. The unique thing about Hijras was that they were actually a 3rd gender in that gender is a social caste. India has historically had an EXTREMELY rigid social hierarchy built up with castes and even though the government made castes illegal the population still views them as real. If you are a man who doesn't take a wife and create children then you are not fulfilling your "role" in society correctly. The caste system in India took this very seriously and would move those men into an entirely separate caste.

I have known about Hijras for a long time due to documentaries and there never used to be any implication that I saw indicating that they were supposed to be trans in any way. As time went on the TRAs have pushed that definition creep and now if you look up Hijras it explicitly claims they are transwomen which is insanity because the entire point of Indian culture creating the new caste was to push them outside the role of both men and women.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's unlikely though.

[–]OuroborosTheory 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I mean there's "prison gay," "sailor gay," maricas, "men having sex with men," futanari, níð, skoptsy, castrati, and just plain bargain-bin eunuchs, but even their beloved "two-spirits" were seen as witchcraft suspects who had to sit down hard on sharp flint every month since they wanted to bleed so bad

what's the matter is that they're just trying to annex thousands of years of human sexual expression to a superspecific 2010s US/Canadian way of defining "queerTM"

[–]William_World 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

there's a long history of eunuchs guarding harems. I think the rich want to bring that back, they don't want chad security guards watching their women.

[–]chris3991m[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, learn about the Balkan sworn virgins. They probably were masculine women: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sworn_virgins

[–]IkeConn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Queers desperately want to be considered "normal".

[–]xoenix 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They pretty much had it. That wasn't enough though, they want normal to be considered "weird."

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They want to be special and celebrated for not doing anything.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So I was reading up on this British concept of a "gentleman" and I was very confused, after all being gentle is a feminine trait. So I did some more research on it and lo and behold, not only was this "gentleman" someone who acted polite and refined, in direct contrast with masculinity, but they also took a very keen interest in fashion, in contrast to men who simply leave the house without wearing clothes at all so it is much easier for them to sexually harass women. This is clearly an example of a pre-patriarchy queer trans identity from what I am now learning was called the "Victorian" period, clearly not a name of the penis, and proof of the historical validity of queer black identities. It seems this Queen Victoria was a strong black woman who was well known for her "secret" which the patriarchy later colonized as a lingerie store to humiliate women around the same time they invented Christianity after the American Civil War.