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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Better late than never and I don't believe in attacking those that come to reason is in any way helpful for the movement against this, but that said, you do need to sit back and really ask yourself "why did I think transitioning children, drugging and giving them surgeries to merely "appear" as the opposite gender, instead of dealing with the root causes of their distress, was a good idea".

It's like if a child comes in and says they are feeling sad that grandma died and they want to be with grandma again, so you decide euthanasia is a good option to give them what they want. Sheer lunacy.

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

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    [–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    A good analogy. I'm going to answer yes, we do give the girl gastric bypass surgery, because we have a capitalistic medical system which is profit driven. If I as a doctor choose not to pursue such an unnecessary surgery due to some non-profit related metric. Then my patient need merely find a profit motivated doctor with no such moral hangups

    For this reason I've long argued that medicine is a realm in which the normal workings of market capitalism are not going to lead to desirable outcomes and will eventually work against the good of the patient unless there is some kind oversight and moral system in place that is not beholden to profit based motivations.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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      [–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      I'm not aware of any such cases either (I'll leave out some of the suspect obesity treatments I see adults get, while I suspect they are sub optimal, I am not a medical expert, nor do I believe it is some great moral outrage for adults to choose such, but I do believe we need to criticize the profit motive)

      My point is, I think that when we have a medical system and industry that is profit driven, the answer to your question "do we give gastric bypass surgery to minors with anorexia" is "does that make us money" and not "is that what's best for the patient."

      There are a great number of moral doctors along with amoral doctors, not everyone is going to go along with blatant profiteering at the expense of the patients, but the simple process of social darwinism here does lead to a "survival of the fittest" mechanism.

      In nature, there is no sense of morality in evolution. If an organism reproduces more it "wins" the game. Even if such wins destroy the local environment (see overpopulation of predators or herbivores when balances are upset) it doesn't effect the individual, who wins. With business the win condition is set to "who makes the most money" and while many won't be playing by that rule, others will, and as long as we don't have a social framework in place to keep doctors working in their patients best interests (and profit motives I'm absolutely in favor of, skilled and good doctors should get more money) that shouldn't be reflected in terms of sales (for example a doctor who finds a way to sell less medicine and keep his patients happy and healthy should be valued more than a doctor who prescribes more medicine, our system will merely reward the doctor with the higher sales with the financial benefits)

      One of the biggest failings of communism was the bizzare notion that people would somehow forgo the allure of wealth, and will simply pursue morally superior pursuits once the "oppression of capitalism" is removed. I disagree with that notion. I think that the allure of wealth and power are inescapable realities of the human condition. And that given the proper environment humans are capable of comitting great evil on others for their own benefit. As such, we need to structure society in ways where the interests of the individual are in line with the interests of society as a whole. This isn't easy, or perfectly achievable. But it can be enforced through some legislation. In the American sense, I think the most effective way would be to ban medical advertising, especially for prescription drugs. I see no real moral significance between TV adverts hawking anti-depressents than I would if they were advertising heroin. In fact, I think the only real difference between the two is the latter does have a real risk of killing you now, and that limits the medical industry ability to profit from the addiction. Which is why they are against it. I feel a similar situation exists with tobacco, which while undeniably bad for you, is given a stigma in American society far outreaching it's actual danger. I situation I feel has come about due to the medical industry realizing that it's probably more profitable to sell various stress relief and anti-depressents medications than having a population hopped up on mild stimulants.

      Don't get me wrong, tobacco is bad for you, and of course you are better off to abstain from it. But in the American sense I've noticed a stigma towards tobacco so insanely strong as if it's seen as akin to criminal activity. And I don't think this situation is in any way organic.

      [–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I don't know if it's just me, but I've noticed that there's something odd about some of the people who are almost militantly opposed to tobacco, and that's they are almost just as militant about the legalization and widespread acceptance of weed. (Quite a few are also just as against alcohol.)

      In my personal experience, I had someone (verbally) blast me for lighting a cigarette, going into this rant about how my filthy habit is destroying not just my lungs but theirs as well. This while they in the middle of packing a fucking bong.

      [–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I am unaware of any anorexic patient that was ever given gastric bypass surgery

      We all know that's only because it's not the trendy and profitable thing to do - yet. The moment it becomes trendy, you can bet that "you have to respect an anorexic person's identity", and there will be anorexic characters suddenly popping up a lot in media to attract potential customers. And anorexia will be shown as something precious and special.

      And afterwards, watch the gastric bypass surgery requests skyrocket to 2000%!!!! PROFIT!!

      [–]jacques1102 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      The thing is most TRAS would argue that anorexic girls are still depressed if you did give them gastric bypass surgery.Yet they argue that because the majority of trans people are happy with surgery that it's not only proof that they're the gender they claim to be but also we need to play along as well.I'm not saying i agree with them, but it's really odd how this is the only mental condition where a person is some how truly who they say they are.No one says multiple personality disorder is multiple people sharing a body.No one uses schizophrenia as proof hallucinations are real in another reality.If transgenders were really who they claim to be(which i don't believe)how is it not classified as the biggest birth defect in medical history?

      [–]r2d2_21 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      No one says multiple personality disorder is multiple people sharing a body

      Oh no, they do. It's not as widespread as trans people, but “systems” have existed in Tumblr for several years now.