Pyramid of Debate vs Echo Chamber subs

submitted by SaidOverRed from (self.SaidIt)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]southpaw 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I do see what you are saying about an echo chamber vs a sub that engages in actual debate. When you are not in an echo chamber, it allows for discussion and a free flow of ideas. It also allows your opinion to be challenged and force you to see issues from another angle. However, there are also some subs that exist to allow for the camaraderie of a shared experience. As you pointed out on Reddit, r/actuallesbians was taken over by a lot of transwomen/supporters and banned anyone who didn’t agree with their belief that lesbians should fully embrace trans women as actual women. The mods over there strongly discouraged discussions about periods and other women’s issues, and would ban people who said they didn’t want to have sex with someone who still had a penis attached to them. The “refugees” from that sub made a new sub which was lost in The Great Ban Wave. Understandably, that sub on Saidit, doesn’t want to repeat history, so they made a rule that you have to be a female-born lesbian to participate in that sub. While that might sound like an echo chamber, there is still debate amongst the participants in that sub over issues that affect them. For instance, some users on that sub may support trans women 100% but disagree with TRAs violent bullying, while others may support a transperson’s right to transition but not their acceptance in women’s sports/prisons/shelters, whereas there are others who do not accept transwomen at all. From the outside, it may just look like they all just hate transwomen, but the topic is more nuanced than that because of their history and lived experiences as lesbians. Lesbians make up less than 2% of the population, and it is easy for their voices to get drowned out, especially in this current political climate. Also, since they are such a small group, it is nice to meet other women who may have a similar experiences as you, especially if you don’t know any other lesbians.

[–]forwardback 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Such a well written and reasonable description, and explanation, of restricted subs! Too bad men, such as the adamant ones on this post, still won't get it, or even care. Sigh.

[–]Conductive-rabbi 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

😮

[–]SaidOverRed[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sigh. I'm really not complaining about having restrictive subs. You want /r/blackpeople to be for black people? Go for it. You want your white nationalist playgrounds? Go for it. This is about being able to discern what is a normal place (where you can politely speak your mind) and what is not (where you get banned for wrongthink).

But maybe you still can't understand, so let me bring in Sargon of Akkad for a moment. What you just said is clears throat: "Too bad niggers ... still won't get it." See how that sounds? Do you get why having a simple warning banner might a good idea now?

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]SaidOverRed[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You mean, like the top comment here? Because if that's the bar that got set, then I'm doing far better than that. You're leaning awfully hard on that "should" about sidebars. Compare to my "convoluted" mention in the OP. A warning would be nice so people can use more than one sub at a time, rapidly, back and forth, without having to wonder about what self-censorship to apply. I've got one universal setting and it's been good enough for everywhere except GC and /r/MGTOW. Although, come to think of it, they are two sides of the same coin.

    Maybe reddit just has nicer users. I'm not sure. Here's the end of a nice DM chain I just got about philosophy from redpillwives. I won't paste the name of the user, but I think the anonymous text is suitable to share: "I see, and yes I agree. With the polarity comes also interdependence and that's why it would not be accepted in TRP. They need to drill in the independent man, "you don't need women", idea.

    But it's the same with feminism, exactly the same, but from a position of not accepting there is any polarity. TRP accepts the polarity, the difference between men and women, but develops its ideas pragmatically and stoically, I'd say, withdrawing rather than being in your face hysterical."

    Those are her words not mine. Ironically I was telling this user to come to saidit because the mods aren't as crazy. But if it's common for innocent users to get banned for wrong-think in subs without clear warning labels, I might have to take that back. Reddit has freakin' quarantine pages!