I feel depressed about all this and how isolating it feels to be woke about the misogyny and gas lighting of the trans movement

submitted by mangosplums from (self.Lesbians)

It feels really isolating. I feel like everyone else I know isn't woken up to this. They don't realize that trans rights activists are misogynists, they don't realize that women are being targeted for talking about our bodies, while rape, pedophila and abuse fetishes are A-OK, and that lesbians are being bullied for disliking penises. I go on twitter and I like to follow accounts of cool seeming lesbians there, and every one of them is all "fuck terfs", "trans women are women". My heart sinks every time I see one of them lecture about how awful JK Rowling is. These are women who I would love to be friends with, but I feel like we're not compatible anymore. I feel like it's just because they don't understand the extent to which the movement they are supporting wants to police them and deny them rights. But I don't feel like there's any way to wake them up to it, because they are indoctrinated too deep already. If you try to talk to them about it, and show them evidence of what you're talking about, they'll just engage in confirmation bias and reject the evidence you showed them because it threatens their sense of community too much and being accepted by the wider lgbt community is important for them and I understand why. So now I feel separated from the lesbian community as a whole, and like I have to be on guard whenever I meet another lesbian. It sucks. We here are the only ones who see what's going on and our true lesbian community here is so small.

I don't like being ostracized, I like being a part of society, I like to take part in the fun stuff. I just wonder if women in general will ever realize and push back. I do see some people who are part of r/pregnancy and r/pcos realizing after their subreddits were attacked by TRAs, but I still think it's just a small number and that the cost of speaking up, or even allowing yourself to entertain thoughts that maybe the trans movement is taking things too far, is too much for most people. TRAs really have the gas lighting and manipulation techniques down so well.

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[–]QuilldeVil 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please just know that you are not alone, no matter what the social media narrative pushes. Also know that many voices like yours are silenced for their dissenting opinion, and there are more of us than it appears. I won't lie - I find it a bit terrifying, but there are many eyes that are being opened every day.

My strategy is this: Going full-on TERF (and at this point I call myself a TERF proudly because what else am I going to do) with someone who is still drinking the kool-aid rarely works. They become defensive because they feel personally attacked and honestly believe they are doing the right thing and doing their part to protect an oppressed minority that evil Lesbians want to exterminate, or something. If it ever comes up in conversation, I break it down into smaller examples and personalize it, i.e. women have their own sports leagues for important reasons and a Hannah Mouncey in a physical contact sport is fundamentally unfair. Or I talk about my experiences working in a women's shelter and the issues we had whenever we provided residence to a transwoman. Or how awful my ex who decided he was a she acted during and after their transition process (I was young and thought I might be bi. Spoiler alert: I'm not). There are also, obviously, issues specific to women that trans will never know or experience, and I dance around these as well.

I think people can find connections and agreement in these smaller, specific examples, and honest to goodness there have been quite a few people I've engaged with in conversation that mostly agree with us but are scared to speak out. And I feel like I plant seeds and provide a sounding board once they do hit peak trans.

All in all, I am very grateful for the alternatives to reddit and that we have a place to gather here. Being a lesbian is a unique, difficult, and beautiful life, and all we can do is be there for each other.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I completely relate. I'm 16 and lesbians don't even seem to exist anymore in my age group, it's so isolating. The LGBT club at my school has FIVE transmen, some bisexuals and a few nonbinary people. Lesbians seem to be an endangered species. Those trans boys just seem like butch lesbians to me but they've been so heavily indoctrinated into the TRA ideology and it's sad. Reddit was the only place I felt sane. I can't share my views with any of my friends because I would be ostracised. I just had to get this off my chest.

[–]southpaw 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Five transmen?! That’s crazy. If you don’t mind me asking, how do your peers treat you in relation to the transmen? Are they considered “one of the guys” or are they treated more like women? Are any of the non-binary women more on the butch side? How are they treated?

Sorry for the questions, I’m just genuinely curious. I’m much older than you. I’m more of a butch lesbian. I can’t imagine my high school having a LGBT club. I was bullied for wearing more masculine clothes and I can still remember some of the homophobic things my teachers would say (like gays burn in hell, the US should consider throwing homos off buildings, HIV is what happens when you are gay, etc.)

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am older, too. When I came out, there were drag queens. They identified as gay men. Trans wasn’t even a concept that took hold until the mid-1990’s. Once gender studies replaced women’s studies, it took root in colleges and universities. It really poisoned the well for lesbians.

Before that, there was a large and wonderful lesbian community. We only dealt with homophobia from heterosexual people. We had nightclubs, bars, bookstores galore, support groups, social groups, Mich Fest, West Coast Women’s music festivals, etc. We cared for our gay brothers during the AIDS crisis in the 1980’s. It was a community.

I watched the daughter of a family friend come out as a butch lesbian at age 13. Her family was wonderful. She went to high school in a liberal area and they accepted her and she had a girlfriend throughout HS.

Then she went to university. Within a year, she identified as trans. She did not want to be identified as a lesbian any longer. Last year she started testosterone.

Social media reinforces the narrative that lesbians are transphobic. I feel for young lesbians today. I honestly do.

I despair at the loss of our community.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm really jealous. I would love to have a gay bookstore. Woman's only spaces where men have no footing sound like a dream. I don't feel like I have a community at all. There's nowhere I can turn to be around just women let alone just lesbians.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Edit: Young sister, RedditHatesLesbians, it is dark right now. I agree. No sugarcoating that. On the other hand, there have always been lesbians throughout millennia.

Sappho was alive around 500BC. WE are not going to go anywhere. It may be difficult for us to find each other at this point in time, but you found Saidit and other lesbians will, too.

Never lose hope. I am telling myself this, too.

[–]southpaw 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That breaks my heart! I get so mad when I read de-trans stories and the women were either butch lesbians or just plain old tomboys.

God, I miss gay bookstores. It was nice to have a casual chat with a stranger and get recommendations.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They tend to be social recluses - they all hang out with either girls with extremely bad fashion choices or boys who are presumed gay, in small groups. Two of them just hang out with each other. They're definitely not treated as the boys, they're either ignored or tiptoed around from what I've seen. People do talk crap behind their backs though. Our school has a zero tolerance policy for bullying, particularly based on being LGBT, and it's pretty effective for once. Oddly enough the masculine leaning women who identify as non binary outright are left alone but while I'm quite butch myself I get name called for being a butch lesbian and not non binary if that makes sense. People say I look like a man and other stuff.

[–]southpaw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is really shitty that you get flack for being butch. Just know that you will be appreciated one day. Some ladies really really love butches ;) I feel like the younger you are when you become comfortable in your own skin the easier adulthood is in some ways. I know so many adults who are so hungry for an identity that they latch onto whatever they can, without ever knowing who they truly are. For instance women who are married with kids and all they talk about is their spouse and children. When you ask them about themselves, it is pretty shallow what comes out. Stay strong.

Edit: I'm not shitting on motherhood or straight women. I just used it as an example.

[–]Butch_Dyke 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Omg, I get how frustrating it is to not have any fellow lesbians in your age-range. I'm 15 and butch, and I have NEVER encountered a single actual lesbian who is around my age. We're an endangered species! 😭💔

[–]LesbiSilly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I went to my college group a few years back and almost NO lesbians. Where did all the Lesbians go?!

[–]StrictlyDykely 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was on the other side of this whole debate so I can definitely say more people will wake up. What happened to me what I moved to a city after knowing barely any gays in my small town, and the first lesbians I met were playing with gender and stereotypes and having fun. You could say it was very early in the development of what we are seeing today. It was before all of the “women’s studies” programs were co-opted by “gender studies” and queer theory non-reality. It was harmless and fun. Then people started taking it seriously and getting surgeries and transitioning, and calling yourself a lesbian if your partner had transitioned was “mean.” Michfest was becoming a big problem for this group, because they did not let ant trans women in. They let trans men in. It seemed contradictory, especially since the trans people at the time were not the trans people of today. Then the whole “you have to consider trans women as partners” thing started and things got more polarized. The women who were trying to keep michfest woman only were 5-10 years older than my group, and when you are 20 that is a big maturity and life experience difference. I get it now. Cathy Brennan was right. Lol. She REALLY WAS. And she was fighting this way before we are. I don’t feel like she got a fair shake. Imagine being one of the first? Yikes

So long story short, lots of young people are immediately indoctrinated in this stuff, especially now with social media and tumblr etc being loaded with larpers, it’s all they know, eventually they will wake up. I hope

[–]ghostraider 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would like to think they will eventually wake up since it is impossible to keep the delusion all the time with all people, it is a matter of time until they are censored or cognitive dissonance kicks in. For some of them it will be too late and they will find themselves cut off from us and embedded deep into the cult, but that was their choice. I already know a case of someone very deep that is now like "wait, are we really supposed to think they are truly females? I thought it was not literal!", and no way I am risking myself to approach her, she made her own bed and now she can lie on it.

[–]oatmealhockey 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know it is hard to see so many people who just can't see how blatantly awful things are. But mosty will wake up to the bullshit eventually. I just think back to how I used to be on the TWAW boat...but eventually the cognitive dissonance became too much. There is way too much virtue signaling, fear of cancellation, and just trying to be kind happening. Most people just don't know enough about what is happening to realize how bad it is. We can't force it. But it will happen because ultimately we are on the side of biology and truth.

I just hope society actually LEARNS something from all of this. It can be hard to find lesbians in general in real life, let alone lesbians who understand why we are upset. But there are many of us gathered in these online spcaes, so I would just use these online spaces to remind yourself that you're not alone.

[–]spirette 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look, most people are idiots. That includes women. Most people don't use their brain, think deeply about things, question stuff. They just don't. This isn't new.

It is indeed discouraging seeing so many 30+ year-old women supporting this crap. But the reason they do it is because they are stupid, crave popularity like immature teens and are selfish.

I don't care about the "lesbian community" (except here obv). They support that shit. So fuck them. I want nothing to do with them. There is zero excuse for grown-ass women to believe all that nonsense. It harms them as lesbians and they don't care.

I will sit there and watch all this crazy shit unfold and not care because frankly, lesbians brought this on themselves. Sorry but that's the truth. When you keep saying "trans woman" as if these dudes are female, when you choose to welcome males in lesbian spaces, when you bend over backwards to accommodate all the "queers" then you are a doormat and I have zero sympathy.

I would suggest that you don't use Twitter because it's awful and pointless to argue with idiots. You won't change their minds and when all this nonsense is over, they won't admit they were fools. They'll pretend it never happened. But the damage will be done.