ColonizationWe MUST include the P in the alphabet soup apparently

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[–][deleted] 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation. Children are not a sex.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I really wish gay rights activists hadn't yoked themselves to the immutability argument. Whether we are born this way or not is an interesting scientific question but it ultimately doesn't serve us politically. The best, simplest argument for equal treatment regardless of sexual orientation is an appeal to (classical) liberalism: if it doesn't hurt anyone or infringe on others' rights, allow it, and if so, don't.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, highlighting the distinction that homosexuality between consenting adults is okay because adults can make their own decisions, while children are incapable of processing sexuality so sex with them should be illegal.

[–]Virginia_Plain 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I am "born this way" as someone on the autism spectrum, but that isn't what links me to the gay community. Being gay links me to the gay community. There are some people who want "neurodivergence" to be inherently "queer," but that's crap. There are plenty of heterosexual people with autism and other conditions. Why should they suddenly be called "queer" against their will.

People are "born this way" for a lot of things.

I agree with you that the gay rights movement has built a lot of its foundation on pat sayings ("Love is Love!!!!"). Initially it was effective at getting a lot of people to come around, but it left so much open space, so much vagueness (things that queer theory people are super fond of) that it was ripe for exploitation.

[–]motss-pb 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I think the immutability argument is still important. I certainly don't want to be subjected to conversion therapy just because people think conversion is possible. I also don't want homosexuality to be misunderstood as a choice because people assign moral values to choices. It should be understood for what it is - an innate immutable quality that causes no harm.

I don't know to what extent pedophilia is innate or immutable, but the fact that it causes harm is what sets it apart from sexual orientation. It is a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation. Pedo activists and homophobes alike are both motivated to blur the lines between sexual orientation and paraphilia, even though the difference is obvious.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't know to what extent pedophilia is innate or immutable, but the fact that it causes harm is what sets it apart from sexual orientation.

Our only disagreement here is that I think this is all that matters, from a legal/utilitarian/messaging perspective. In a liberal paradigm (and just to be super clear here since these terms are all muddied now, I mean liberal as opposed to authoritarian, not conservative) it doesn't matter whether something is a choice or not, or how scandalized people are by another person's choice. All that matters is whether actions cause direct material harm and infringe on another person's rights. I believe this renders forced conversion therapy a moot threat, too, because that is an infringement on your rights, for which you committed no previous infringement of your own.

I also don't want homosexuality to be misunderstood as a choice because people assign moral values to choices.

They still do, though. The far right wants us to suck it up and make more white babies for the ethnostate (unless you're not white, in which case they want you deported or genocided, but that's another topic). The religious people want us to either stay celibate or get married/have kids with an opposite sex partner anyway, because they see homosexuality like any other sinful temptation that can and should be resisted. In both cases, our innate attraction, our desires, are beside the point; the expectation is that we align our actions with the collective ideal.

[–]motss-pb 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

it doesn't matter whether something is a choice or not

I think when you depict homosexuality as a choice, you invite the homosexuality = bigotry argument. Why can't lesbians simply choose to like dick? Choices can be influenced by bigotry. Even if all that matters is whether harm is caused or not, we now have a debate over whether homosexuality is inherently harmful (i.e. the TRA argument of how same-sex attraction is bigotry)

[–]onenaivecanary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right. Also, a LOT of us tried to live as heterosexuals until we couldn't anymore. Whether you went on some opposite-sex dates as a teen or were married for a decade. Knowing that you were actually trying to fight nature the whole time makes it all make sense (as opposed to trying to convince yourself that the next sex position or bottle of lube might just be the magical solution that makes you normal). The TRA "unlearn your preferences" line horrifies me, not because I can't imagine living through radical changes in self-image or lifestyle (I've gone through at least two or three in the last decade. It's not fun, but you live through it) but because I know from experience that this IS NOT POSSIBLE.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well in that case no one except a non-monogamous pansexual open to an infinite amount of partners, regardless of whether or not they are attracted to them, can escape the bigotry accusation. It's too ridiculous to hold water when taken to its natural conclusion. There's also the issue of "Why can't you?" vs "Why should I have to?" I'm wearing a gray shirt today. Why can't I just wear a yellow one? The fact is that I didn't want to, and that's reason enough.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 18 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Don't scroll past "more tweets".

[–]julesburm1891 16 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is advice I wish I had seen before I opened this link. Can’t unsee any of that.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But saying 'only women menstruate' is a bannable offence on twitter.

[–]wendyokoopa1 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

More then ever before I want to visit Twitter servers and just accidentally destroy them. The being anti pedophile was fantastic and necessary and I'm totally for it. It was scrolling down to the zoophile pride section

[–]JulienMayfair 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is just another example of other groups trying to hitch themselves to the success of LGB rights movements. It happened before when NAMBLA weaseled its way into groups like ILGA and various gay pride organizations, and it took gay rights groups an embarrassingly long time to weed them out. As I understand it, there was still conflict in the mid-1990s over banning NAMBLA from San Francisco Gay Pride. Part of that was a growing awareness of the long-term consequences of sexual abuse of minors and issues of consent.

These days, we know exactly who is looking at grooming minors ("eggs") and tossing consent out the window.

For a while, even r/lgbt had to have a stickied post stating that no attempts to normalize pedophilia would be tolerated. They are constantly trying to slip back on the train of gay rights.

[–]Virginia_Plain 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, for a trolling effort, people should put a triangle on the Black Lives Matter flag that represents the struggles faced by Asian American, Native American, and Latino people in the US.

BLM has very effectively explained that they are interested in one issue, and that clouding the water with statements like "ALL LIVES MATTER" is at best counterproductive and at worst erasure. And who can blame them for pointing that out? The thing is, people fall in line. They are able to articulate exactly why it is BLM should be BLM, only to turn around and have that ugly ass flag on their Facebook, smarmily talking about how it needs to represent ALL PEOPLE!!! They believe in progress, after all.

The ever growing alphabet soup is a collection of people who are more and more tangentially connected to each other, under an umbrella of "non-normative" sexuality and/or gender expression. People who identify as elves or whatever want to be included. Any and all mental conditions are "queer" too to some people.

[–]spanishprofanity 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

More shocked about this one tbh

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That guy is a dangerous person. Keep him away from children.

[–]SerpensInferna 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That he feels he can publicly post this at all is chilling, and telling.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I believe that the death penalty is an appropriate measure against child molestation. I wouldn’t even spit on a nonce if he or she was on fire.

I don’t care if paedophiles were "born this way". Children cannot process certain things, especially sexuality. Their brains do not have the capability to do that. They cannot mentally process sex, they do not understand the physical, social and legal consequences of sex, and their bodies are not developed enough to cope with having sex.

Furthermore, children are mentally challenged. I know it’s not a nice thing to say, and I know that some children are incredibly smart, but it’s the truth. Their brains are still in development. They will believe in fairies and Santa Claus, they will believe whatever adults tell them because their critical thinking skills are still development, they see everything in terms of black and white and there are complicated concepts that they cannot comprehend. Children get more intelligent as they get older, but until they are old enough, they are vulnerable and society should protect them from vultures.

I also love how paedophile activists are allowed on Twitter, but you get banned for saying that there are only two sexes or that under-18’s should not be put on cross-sex hormonal drugs. At that point, you have to wonder if Twitter is okay with paedophilia.

[–]Autopsy-Turvy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At that point, you have to wonder if Twitter is okay with paedophilia.

Oh, I don't wonder.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The beaming face of paedophilia

[–]Shales123 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh CUNY. I go there lmao. Not John Jay though. At least my A&P professor straight up said that trans people can only change their outward appearance, not their sex. I wonder when he'll get fired for that. Probably not soon because the CUNY school I go to serves working class native New Yorkers who mostly don't have time for this "woke" bs

[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you don't include P then the rest of it is garbage. Once the phrasing left from "gay" and the L and B got included, the slope was greased. There is now no logical reason to exclude anyone from the alphabet soup. Including, by the logic, superstraights and supergays.