HomophobiaGC Twitters criticism of Pete & Chasten Buttigiegs Adoption is getting homophobic

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[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am gender critical through and through, but I'm distancing myself from radical feminism, or feminism as a whole.

Do you mind if I ask, do you define "gender critical" (GC) to be something distinct from radical feminism? I ask because I am against radical feminism, and also very strongly against gender identity ideology, but I never describe myself as gender critical because I have heard many (but not all!) radical feminists say "GC is just another term for radical feminist" and I do not want to suggest that I support radical feminism.

[–]strictly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do you mind if I ask, do you define "gender critical" (GC) to be something distinct from radical feminism?

Another user here, but will answer too. It used to be said in the old debate sub on reddit that all radfems are GC but not all GC people are radfems. I don't consider myself a radical feminist, the main reason I call myself GC is that is what people tend to call those with my position, i.e I don't believe in universal innate gender identities, I don't believe sex can be changed, I don't think it's transphobic to be truthful about males being male and females being female, nor do I see it as transphobic of monosexuals to not be attracted to trans people of the wrong biological sex.

I found GC through an online search when lesbians started getting called transphobic for not being into males, I wanted to know if there were others who saw how homophobic this was. I think it’s quite common for GC lesbians to have found GC like me, simply being concerned about the new woke homophobia, and not through being involved in radical feminism. My impression is that most GC people who are radfems these days found out about GC first and then become radfems as I know many who almost didn’t know what radical feminism was about before they found GC. I also think there are conservatives who find GC and call themselves GC, but I think as GC stands for Gender Critical then being pro gender in a conservative way is not really being gender critical. Anyway I think if someone made a post in a GC space about Julie Bindel propagating political lesbianism then Julia Bindel would be criticized for that, as denying sexual orientation is not a GC position. I have never posted on ovarit though or in any of the GC subs except for the debating ones, as I don’t believe everything GC says, I have my own views.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yup, no problem, and I should have specified, I'm curious to hear answers on this question from a variety of people, so thanks for sharing.

My views are similar to yours but I tend to not identify myself as GC and don't plan on doing so, even though my views are "gender critical" in the literal sense. I tend to think of this set of views as closer to those of the general population.

I think it’s quite common for GC lesbians to have found GC like me, simply being concerned about the new woke homophobia, and not through being involved in radical feminism.

I hope so. I have only met one person IRL, ever, who is a radfem sympathizer; I've never met a lesbian (actually homosexual, not "political lesbian") radfem IRL.

I also think there are conservatives who find GC and call themselves GC, but I think as GC stands for Gender Critical then being pro gender in a conservative way is not really being gender critical.

Agreed.

Anyway I think if someone made a post in a GC space about Julie Bindel propagating political lesbianism then Julia Bindel would be criticized for that, as denying sexual orientation is not a GC position.

Perhaps it is not a GC position as you have defined GC, but it is a radfem position, and often times the line between "GC" and "radfem" gets blurred in GC spaces. I have seen several threads on this sub, months ago, get swarmed with people from the GC sub/Ovarit getting all mad at people here for suggesting that radical feminists are often homophobic. I haven't seen that quite as much recently, though, so that's good.

[–]strictly 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My views are similar to yours but I tend to not identify myself as GC and don't plan on doing so, even though my views are "gender critical" in the literal sense.

Because of my views I would be seen as GC even if I didn’t consider myself one, and in the literal sense I am gender critical. I have participated in the debate subs so it would be clunky denying being gender critical despite my views in the debate roughly aligning with the GC side. It’s like how those who think trans people should be called the opposite sex have to put up with being seen as part of the QT side regardless if they are truscum or tucute.

I tend to think of this set of views as closer to those of the general population.

Yeah, I think many of those who are called TERF find out what terf is by googling what they have been called, because as you say, the view that is seen as “terfy” is just the common view of the general population. A lesbian doesn’t need to be a radical feminist for not being attracted to males but she will get called the acronym of trans exclusionary radical feminist because of it anyway.

I've never met a lesbian (actually homosexual, not "political lesbian") radfem IRL.

I’ve never met a lesbian radfem irl, but I’ve met those who would be considered terfs by others for their homosexuality, it’s an ironic situation when homosexual women are seen as following the movement supporting political lesbianism for meeting the actual definition of lesbian.

Perhaps it is not a GC position as you have defined GC, but it is a radfem position, and often times the line between "GC" and "radfem" gets blurred in GC spaces.

I think old school radfems were the first ones on the left who were vocal about males not being women. Then when males started insisting they were literally women they started calling people on the left TERF for not agreeing despite that most of these people never had been part of radical feminism. Those who were called TERF didn’t agree with the often inaccurate TERF label and decided to call their position gender critical. I remember seeing in the old GC sub on reddit people scolding GC for not following old school radical feminists ideas as a bible and getting downvoted and told GC is their own movement, i.e GC had no moral obligation to support some idea just because some homophobic/genderist oldschool radfem supported it. But as most old school radfems are gender critical in some way lines get blurred as you say, and radical feminism has received an upswing due to GC as some GC people do become radfems. People being banned from reddit and other platforms for not believing in sex change probably increases the radicalization.

I have seen several threads on this sub, months ago, get swarmed with people from the GC sub/Ovarit getting all mad at people here for suggesting that radical feminists are often homophobic

My guess is that the people swarming these threads are radfems themselves so they swarm these threads not because they are critical of gender but because they feel targeted as radfems.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it’s an ironic situation when homosexual women are seen as following the movement supporting political lesbianism for meeting the actual definition of lesbian.

Exactly this.

But as most old school radfems are gender critical in some way lines get blurred as you say, and radical feminism has received an upswing due to GC as some GC people do become radfems. People being banned from reddit and other platforms for not believing in sex change probably increases the radicalization.

Yup, that makes a lot of sense. Another ironic result of Reddit's (and other platforms') decision to ban people who hold different beliefs than them, rather than retain them on the platform and moderate them.

My guess is that the people swarming these threads are radfems themselves so they swarm these threads not because they are critical of gender but because they feel targeted as radfems.

That is my guess as well. Though I am skeptical as to the threat that a small 2k sub poses as opposed to the entire TQ+ movement...