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[–]grammaroo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You literally just pulled the “how can they be homophobic If they’re not afraid of gay men” 12 year old response. it seems that your understanding of homophobia is incredibly superficial since you think it directly deals with gay men. Homophobia isn’t directed at gay people because some gay man stole a heterosexual’s sandwich 900 years ago and we’re learning to reconcile because of that conflict. You’re intentionally being dishonest and childish here.

Reading through your post, you seem to struggle to understand that the perversion of gender is intimately tied to homophobia.

I’ve read some of jane Austen’s works. Whats the point of bringing them up as if you’re some sort of scholar in women’s literature? What in god’s name was she going to write about during the 1700’s in polite society? A nude man with a gigantic dick and hairy balls smashing her face into the mud with his big sexy feet as she masturbates to his power? Lol more dishonesty. Her works don’t reflect her sexuality and her desires and had nothing to do with sex but finding a romantic partner. I didn’t read anything about giant sweaty huge dicks in her works or how hot and sexy men are when their abs accidentally flex when they breath.

You’re not doing a very good job obfuscating and deflecting the flaws within heterosexual/bisexual female sexuality and I find it fascinating that you think anyone is convinced when you feign confusion that bisexual women aren’t exactly like heterosexual women when it comes to these flaws, especially when homosexuals (both gays and lesbians) constantly complain bisexuals share the exact same flaws as highly gendered heterosexuals.

You can’t exactly hide the overwhelming majority of women’s underlying expectations of men since they’re regularly stated by women themselves and heterosexual men won’t stop complaining about them.

[–]PosthumousScholar 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You literally just pulled the “how can they be homophobic If they’re not afraid of gay men” 12 year old response.

Go take it up with the APA and the Oxford Dictionary.

it seems that your understanding of homophobia is incredibly superficial since you think it directly deals with gay men. Homophobia isn’t directed at gay people because some gay man stole a heterosexual’s sandwich 900 years ago and we’re learning to reconcile because of that conflict. You’re intentionally being dishonest and childish here.

Funny how you're consistently inventing ad hominem accusations with no proof but I'm the bad guy.

I’ve read some of jane Austen’s works. Whats the point of bringing them up as if you’re some sort of scholar in women’s literature?

I know despite your sophistry, you're a bit too thickheaded to grasp any point that's not framed as a incendiary polemic. So let me explain it in language a child can understand:

  • Popular fantasies among women are based on what they lack access to. These can be divided into two categories: things that are taboo and things beyond their present capacity to obtain. These are contingent on what women expect from life. I illustrated this by comparing popular women's literature from 200 years ago to the present day and explaining how the social + material circumstances influenced stated desires.
  • Fujoshi (women who read yaoi) read violent yaoi in order to project their desire for powerful, masculine men onto gay couples. They do this specifically for gay men because it's considered socially inappropriate within their circles to read similar erotica with women as the main character - it offers plausible deniability. Is it offensive towards gay men? Yes. Is it stark evidence of homophobia? No more than a Samantha Price novel "proves" regular heterosexuals has a phobia of Amish people.
  • The mania over dominance, sexual and otherwise, comes from the absence and unfamiliarity with masculinity in their own lives. Women in the 18th century didn't fantasize about being sexually dominated by men since men had most of the rights and privileges in that arena. These fujoshis are mostly naive young girls and women who haven't experience assault and rape firsthand; victims dream of escaping domestic assault. Getting punched in the face, and experiencing the terror and pain firsthand, would solve this problem (in a brutally efficient, fucked up way).
  • Since the audience, by and large, have access to sex/material comfort/career and social opportunities, their fantasies blow up the object of desire to extreme levels. In the past, women ate up stories about being courted by petty nobles and landowners. Prosperity and free time inflates the demand to unrealistic standards like immortal werewolves and supergeniuses with six-packs. Do women believe these are pragmatic options in their future? For most of them, no. Do they want what they symbolically mean? Absolutely.
  • Women like bad boys for numerous reasons. But what constitutes a bad boy depends on the culture and social norms. 70 years ago, it was riding a motorcycle with a black jacket and smoking with an ineffable cool drawl. Previously women dreamed about freedom and choice in love because they didn't have those experiences; now they crave being controlled and dominated with lust for the same reason. A craving to witness, or instigate, violence is not innate in women - it is a byproduct of modern gender norms. In one sense, it's the dilemma of current feminism: telling them what they desire is wrong only sanctifies the taboo and makes them yearn for it more. No different than their father's warning to avoid that troublesome, handsome boy hanging around at the corner.

Your basic complaint is rabid fujoshis are representative of all heterosexual women (fallacy of composition right there) and what women fantasize about in their minds represents what they want in the real world. The latter is only partially true in the sense that dreams reflect our anxieties and obsessions in reality. Here's a secret: when most heterosexual guys want porn, they don't actually want a big penis like the male talent. They want the self-assurance and confidence to be sexually entitled that they erroneously attribute to the penis itself. That's why they call it a fetish.

You’re not doing a very good job obfuscating and deflecting the flaws within heterosexual/bisexual female sexuality

You're doing a bad job pretending this is nothing more than a bad faith argument where you can flash your nonexistent credentials in order to police a discussion. If you want to grow up and stop waving around your internet wiener in a bout of ego insecurity, I'll be waiting.

especially when homosexuals (both gays and lesbians) constantly complain bisexuals share the exact same flaws as highly gendered heterosexuals.

Again, your "NO, YOU" gambit fails. Frankly, your obsession with bisexuals and inserting them into arguments where they are at best tangential to the topic is bizarre and more indicative of your priorities than anything else. Let's also not pretend biphobia isn't a problem within the gay community itself. Oh yes, I'm quite aware.

You can’t exactly hide the overwhelming majority of women’s underlying expectations of men since they’re regularly stated by women themselves and heterosexual men won’t stop complaining about them.

You're cherry-picking when you take women at their word. Should I assume looks don't matter and they truly want equal partnerships by the same logic because the majority state so? Most don't want to get beaten up, kidnapped, threatened, gaslit or tortured in real life period. It's ridiculous I have to point out this obvious fact.