Gay Menyaio and the false narrative of escapism

submitted by grammaroo from self.LGBDropTheT

I've noticed this theme on Ovarit that AGP straight men fetishize lesbians and dont understand same sex relationships between 2 women and how theyre different from heterosexual relationships but that somehow when straight women (AAP) who identify as women do it, they do so to escape the oppressive dynamics of heterosexual relationships and i dont think thats true judging by the yaoi they consume.

whats the point of obsessing over gay relationships like that if theyre just going to translate the traditional heterosexual dynamics on to them? In so many animes written by these people, it's so typically filled with toxic femininity AND toxic masculinity that no gay person would allow. NOT because gay males are superior but because of the "what the fuck? no..YOU do that for me then" attitude of a reciprocal relationship.

I've read some of these mangas and found them to be strange until someone explained to me that it was created by women.

I've only read 5 of these comics and theyre all by different authors but have the same consistent patter which wouldnt be tolerated within the gay world and has a lot of homophobia in their dynamics.

Example 1. super powerful impossibly young multi billionaire, hyper alpha male and highly protective......finds a 13/14 year old misused, abused and degraded sex slave auctioned off to a bunch of other wealthy billionaires and THIS sexy alpha male buys him, abuses him but the innocent 14 year old boy submits to the torment and surrenders himself fully to the humiliation to please his master until the ultra sexy powerful billionaire 35 year old is guilted into loving him to redeem himself. <---HMMMMMMM geee, i wonder WHO could have written something like this.

Example 2. Ultra dangerous hyper alpha male murderer who has a gigantic dick and just cant stop making people squeal like helpless animals as he crushes their skulls in an erotic sense of destruction as the citizens of the world are his victims and the only chance of survival anyone has is through his pity of your inferiority mere garbage humans...if you only knew beneath his pants lurks a gigantic sweaty mega dick and you're only alive through his mercy. He's a danger to everyone BUT this 13 year old boy can suffer through the pain and power of the ultra alpha male and live under the crushing power of his masculinity to "save him" through....redeeming him by the guilt he induced through all the abuse he inflicted <------HMMMMMM, i wonder whose sexual fantasies these are.

It's almost like there's a pattern that doesnt quite work out well if there isnt a strange element of pedophilia involved that they want but can only project it on to their imagined dynamic of gay love. It's like there's only one pattern that keeps emerging...some alpha male pushing some gay boy's face into the ground with his feet in a metaphorical sense and then suffering through the crushing masculinity to be shown mercy by the sexy, dangerous hyper masculinity they imagine. it says a lot about them that they cant imagine any other dynamic and these people are homophobic to their core and shows how oppressive they are to straight men. If the straight men arent dangerous, scary and violently masculine, then they cant respect them or be attracted to them as sexual partners. They gay community tried VERY HARD to get rid of these garbage dynamics and if you even tried to introduce them again, you'd be laughed out of the room but it just goes to show you, they couldnt even experience or imagine a homosexual relationship even if they tried and they reveal the core of their heterosexism. So even when they "identify" as gay men, they identify with and relate to NOTHING about gay men. They really are cosplaying as them. There's nothing "gay" about them except the social identities they think they can consume like a product.

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[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the straight men arent dangerous, scary and violently masculine, then they cant respect them or be attracted to them as sexual partners.

This is a really important aspect to (toxic) heterosexual relationships. We forget that some women contribute to the toxicity of their relationships by selecting for the most violent and scary men. I wouldn't say this never happens in gay male relationships, but it is comparatively far less common. (On the other hand, uber-promiscuous partner who can't keep in his pants? Totally gay.)

[–]KingDickThe2nd 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It is well known that the target audiences for the "age-structured homosexuality" media content in Japan is women. This varies from homoerotic but non-sexual man-boy relationships to pretty much cartoon child porn.

Yet many Western women who are into Japanese culture are now also watching some of the less pornographic content as well.

Look up the Japanese Anime (published by Sony) called "Loveless" on YouTube. It very much conforms to all the stereotypes listed by OP (20 year old man in a homoerotic relationship with a 12 year old boy, were the kid must suffer pain in order to save the world bah bah bah). There is a whole bunch of women swooning over the perverted relationship in the YouTube comments, saying things like they wish they were a boy so they could get molested in such a manner etc.

You might say it is only a cartoon and this response cannot be taken serious, but look at one of the trailers for the movie "For a Lost Soldier" on YouTube (biographical movie about the relationship between a Dutch artist when they were a child and their adult boyfriend during WW2). It too has a whole bunch of women (not coincidentally with anime profile pics) swooning over the relationship in the comments.

[–]turtleduck23 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I use to read manga and watch anime as a teen but after awhile it just became creepy. some may say "oh it's just a comic, it's not hurting anyone" but alot of these manga stories are read by teens and young adults and it feels like their grooming young people into thinking abusive relationships are "cute" or that the abuser is just "misunderstood and needs love" and trying to normal things that shouldn't be normalized. I use to read yuri and at first they were cute stories, but then i would see popular recommendations and many of the stories had to do with a young school girl being verbally and emotionally abused by a older woman (adult/child relationship are also common) and it was see as a love story because the school girl would make the abuser fall in love with her and the abuse would stop. another thing i noticed was heavy incest. like, 50% of the new manga i would see was sister sexual relationships. not step-sisters (which is still weird) actual sisters. and like you said, the comments were always positive, like, how can you praise a story about a 13 girl being pursued by a 20 something woman who wants to sleep with her? that's not cute that's rapey. or fawn over a character who abuses her gf.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I discovered Yuri as an adult and haven't read any of it because once you knock out anything about school aged children and sisters you've gotten rid of about 99% of it.

It just amazed me though how people get away with producing and reading what is blatantly child porn.

[–]antares 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wonder if Japanese culture has the same effect on Japanese people as it is having now on the weeaboos, or if it's just the extremely weird stuff that gets exported and translated.

[–]SailorMoon2020 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, Japan has numerous sub cultures. Weeboos are westerners who attempt to become a part of that sub culture.

For example, the cat girl uwu, whatever, yeah, that's a sub culture in Japan.

Loli and shotcon, yes, that's a sub culture in Japan.

Futanari, chicks with dicks, that's a sub culture in Japan.

Traps, that's a sub culture in Japan...

If you can think it, there's more than likely a sub culture surrounding it; hence the Rule34 rule.

[–]YoutiaoLover 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As SailorMoon2020 mentioned, there are all kinds of weird sub cultures in Japan. Generally, though, being an adult anime fan is something seen as shameful by Japanese society. Most Japanese I know has separate accounts on social media for their private and their anime related contents (such as cosplay or indie manga they produce) because it's not a good look, unless they're working in manga/anime related sector.

Maybe because of societal pressure and culture, there are some glaring difference between Japanese audience and weebs. Not to say there aren't similarities though!

[–]MisandryFTW 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

All of the gay-identified trans men I know in real life are a lot like this. They are also frequently super femme and into acting like children and animals. I don't know any actual gay men who date them. Their main partners seem to be straight men who identify as "queer" as a way to get the ladies but would never actually date anyone who wasn't born female and looked and acted female. They also have huge age-gap relationships too. A former partner of mine (by partner I mean he was a pedo who pressured me into being his girlfriend despite my lesbianism when I was underage) has been pursuing a lot of these people, especially the ones with small breasts because they look like children and will let him do weird shit to them because he fits the profile of evil old man.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I was into manga and anime a lot as a pre-teen/teen. So I've seen a fair share of different things, yaoi included.

Yaoi and Shounen-Ai are written by women, for women. I think they project a lot of really kinky, abusive sex fantasies onto two male characters so the violence doesn't have to be done to a female character. But because these are heterosexual female authors writing for a heterosexual female audience, the dynamic between the two male characters is heavily influenced by female heterosexual desires and male/female gender and sex roles. These dynamics are seen even in the non-explicit BL stuff too.

Even YA lit has this problem. I've read romance by actual gay male authors as well as female ones, and the difference in tone and relationship dynamics is extremely noticeable. Everyone likes to compare Becky Albertalli and Adam Silvera, but honestly there's still stark contrasts in their novels between the way the male characters behave, talk, and interact, and especially the way the love interests go about pursuing one another.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I once heard someone say 'Love, Simon (both the book and the movie) is gay fiction for a straight audience'. Even if the author wasn't bisexual, she still wouldn't get the details right simply because she's a woman attracted to women and men, and in no way a man.

Edit: Turns out Adam Silvera wrote a book together with Becky Albertalli. I wonder how that turned out.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve always found Becky Albertalli’s work off-putting. Love Simon is probably her most tolerable one.

Yeah, they’ve done a collab. I haven’t read it and not going too, not even Mr. Silvera could save it I think, lol.

I’m way more into lesbian stories by female authors these days (Girls of Paper and Fire and Crier’s War were stunningly good, like re-read level good) but if I’m going to pick up a book about gay male romance it’s gotta be written by a gay man. Not interested in what women regardless of sexual orientation imagine that world to be like, lol.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good news!

https://deadline.com/2021/05/they-both-die-at-the-end-ya-novel-adapted-television-adam-silvera-eone-drew-comins-1234750655/

[–]usehername 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I actually was exposed to your Example 1 a few years ago by a friend, however it was an animated show not a manga. It was absolutely horrific. She was a straight girl (we were younger than the little boy back then) and was being sexually abused by a family member. I think only an abused person, or rarely, a person whose development was stunted in other ways, can enjoy that content.

edit: Just checked, and the age of consent in Japan is 13 :c

[–]YoutiaoLover 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

edit: Just checked, and the age of consent in Japan is 13 :c

Damn, that's freaking young. It kinds of "makes sense" though, considering minimum marriageable age for girls (with parental consent) is 16 years old there...

I wish they'd raise the marriageable age to at least 18.

[–]usehername 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish they'd raise the marriageable age to at least 18.

It is 18 for men ._. just 16 for women (girls, really).