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[–][deleted] 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So, there's a lot going on in this post, but the correlation between GNC kids growing up to be LGB is actually substantiated by numerous large and small scale studies: http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html That's what it is, a correlation. I don't think anyone is saying there's inherent causation, and if they do, they're being disingenuous. I'm not sure why there's a correlation between being GNC as a kid and growing up to be LGB, but it does exist. I would say it's because LGB is so invisible in media, etc., that gay kids often "identify" with things associated with the other sex. I often dressed up for Halloween as a prince instead of a princess, for example, because I always related to the princes marrying the princess in all Disney/fairytale stories.

"homosexuals have an easier time being gender non conforming" I think is an objectively false statement, and I'm curious as to where you've gotten that impression. Butch lesbians and GNC gay men receive far more homophobic harassment in school and elsewhere in public spaces because they're more visible. I've received far less homophobic harassment since I started dressing more feminine than when I was a tomboy. I have no idea what goes on in gay male communities, but for lesbians, lesbian spaces are pretty much the only place butches and masc women can find support for being GNC.

I don't see how straight GNC people being targeted for misplaced homophobic harassment is the fault of gay people, especially gay GNC people. That's the fault of homophobes. I'm not sure what we're supposed to be doing about that. Edit: I think the main problem here is the suggestion that "the way to get ride of homophobic harassment is to get rid of the stereotype that being GNC means you're gay" when this doesn't get at the root of the problem, which is "why is it a bad thing to be associated with being gay"? Ultimately, it's homophobia that drives this harassment. If people accepted LGB as natural, no one would harass GNC straight people for their sexuality or how they dress/behave, no one would harass anyone for their sexuality and dress/behavior in general.

You are right that no one conforms 100% to gender roles as a kid, which is why they should be abolished.

There is a difference between fixating on children's sexuality and acknowledging that LGB children exist and need to be given the message that it's okay for boys to have crushes on boys and girls to have crushes on girls, and it's okay to dress however you want, regardless of who you get crushes on. If I had known lesbians existed as a child, that men can marry men and women can marry women, and been taught a message that homosexuality is natural, it would've saved me a lot of self-hatred, loneliness and depression growing up. There is nothing pedophilic about letting children know in an AGE-APPROPRIATE manner about same-sex attraction. Key word, age-appropriate.

Also, your last comment is... very strange, and I'm unsure what you're trying to say. I think anyone who looks at a child and thinks "this kid is going to grow up to be a sex object for men!' obviously has weird pedophilic tendencies and is also deeply homophobic because they inherently see gay men as being sex objects. I mean, if a boy were to come out by saying he has crushes on other boys, and a person's starts thinking about all the butt-sex the boy must be having when he grows up, that's because that person is just fucked up. I don't think that association has anything to do with acknowledging the fact that kids can be gay.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen"[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But people aren't seeing why the correleation is. It's not that gay men are inherently feminine and lesbian women are inherently masculine. Like I said, it's usually because society says homosexual = unmanly for men and manly for women, that you are "imitating the opposite sex." Boys get told that doing anything associated as "girl things" is "gay" from a very young age. I think I was only 8 or 9 when people started saying I "looked gay" for having long hair and things like that.

So naturally, it makes sense that homosexual people are more likely to express gender non conformity and not hide it, if they have no "gayness" to deny. It also sometimes goes the other way, you even have gay communities telling men they should be feminine if they are in the recieving role, so you get things like "sissification" porn which is all about sexually humiliating men by "turning them into women." This is also how the trans fetishism started.

I'm curious as to where you've gotten that impression. Butch lesbians and GNC gay men receive far more homophobic harassment in school and elsewhere in public spaces because they're more visible.

It's expected of gay people to be "different" or "weird" thanks to shitty stereotypes. But if straight people do it they get an extra level of harassment, compared to openly gay people. Straight guys will have "jokes" and mockery thrown their way about taking it up the ass and secretly being gay if they are "too girly."

I'm not saying being both GNC and gay is easy because it's not. Trust me, I get a lot of hate from both straight and bisexual/homosexual people alike. It sucks. But I feel like if you are OPENLY gay it's easier to get away with, less so if you are straight, or extremely "closeted"/denying it (like I do in real life.)

I don't see how straight GNC people being targeted for misplaced homophobic harassment is the fault of gay people

This seems like a strawman. I'm not blaming "gay people" as a whole. I am blaming pedophilic, creepy people on this sub & LGB alliance for being obsessed with children's sexualities that have yet to develop, and sexualizing children by saying they will grow up to be homosexual inherently just because they are little boys who wear dresses or little girls who play with trucks.

And my problem with it is that even if people like you claim "oh we're not saying they'll ALL be gay", that's what it sounds like. I never see any positivity for GNCness itself. I never see any positivity for GNC straight people. It's always about being gay.

Nobody, especially aligned with crap like LGB alliance, says things like "It's okay for boys to wear dresses, this does not mean they have female brains and need to be transitioned." It's always "It's okay for little gay boys to wear dresses and be fabulous gays, transitioning them is literal conversion therapy, even if they haven't expressed their sexuality yet!"

acknowledging the fact that kids can be gay.

But they can't. If a SMALL CHILD is "gay" then it's an expression of physical abuse and is not an "orientation." People are not born with sexualities and this stuff does not kick in pre-puberty. Children are too young to understand these concepts and it is extremely dangerous for adults to be projecting the concepts of gender identity and sexual orientation onto them.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tbh, I have no association with the LGBAlliance so I have no idea what kind of agenda they're trying to push or what the people involved in that organization are saying about GNC-ness, so I can't respond to any of those points.

However, your last point is blatantly incorrect and honestly offensive. People are born with sexualities. People are born gay and bisexual just as people are born straight. I had crushes on girls when I was 6 years old. I knew I liked only girls by the time I was 9 years old. I didn't start puberty until around 12. The sexual attraction doesn't start until puberty. But the orientation is still there. How the hell was me having a crush on my female friend at age 6 an expression of physical abuse??????? Straight people can talk about their stories of having crushes and holding hands with the opposite sex when they were little kids and it's regarded as normal and cute but suddenly when gay people do it it's physical abuse????? I was never physically or sexually abused as a child, but I still had gay crushes. Many, many, MANY gay people have similar stories, and knew they were gay before puberty. Explain that please??????