Humanities vs sciences

submitted by HelloMomo from (self.LGBDropTheT)

I'm taking some online community college classes this semester, and they've just started. I've noticed: The pronouns games are only a thing in the humanities class.

In my Spanish class, there are 3 students who have their pronouns listed alongside their names, and in my costuming class, the teacher is asking for pronouns in the student introductions. But in my engineering class and my welding class, nothing.

Honestly, I find it comforting. This has limited scope.

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[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep, I noticed that too back in uni---the engineering/math classes didn't care to proselytize us students like the Public Speaking or Sociology classes did. Not related to TQ+, but those classes were basically trying to tell us students at the time if you're not a (liberal) feminist then you're a terrible person and that we're secretly feminist in denial if you believe men and women are equal...What? That's not "feminist", that's common decency.

It's stupid that colleges try to force political beliefs down our throats. Their job is to only teach their subject. That's it. Teach us HOW to think, not WHAT to think. I have other opinions about colleges/universities as a whole but that's a whole different topic.

Hopefully this pronoun gobbledeegook goes away. It's ludicrous and feels like play pretend.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's stupid that colleges try to force political beliefs down our throats. Their job is to only teach their subject. That's it. Teach us HOW to think, not WHAT to think.

I definitely did not learn this in college. I was very lucky to have had a few fantastic teachers teach me criticial thinking skills when I was much younger. I wonder how many of my classmates did not have a similar opportunity. The thought is a little scary.

[–]endless_assfluff 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I'm a mathematician and sadly, many of my colleagues do have pronouns in their email signatures. Everyone played along when the creepy, anime-obsessed AGP grad student transitioned and harassed me.

Learning how to think is step 1. Step 2 is realizing that no matter how well-trained you are, no one fully understands objective reality, so you still hold beliefs and assumptions you didn't arrive at through airtight reasoning. And sadly, "I'm a scientist so everything I believe must be well reasoned" works against that.

And I'm not saying I'm immune to this: I'm bad at standing up for myself and would have been shunned by my colleagues if I dared to publicly challenge the dogma. It took being harassed by the lovely individual above for me to realize this practice was worth questioning.

(Edit: grammar)

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry that you were harassed by that creep! Are you OK now? He is no longer bothering you?

I understand where you're coming from...I used to be an excited "atheist", all about reason, science, and logic. Then, I noticed that atheism now turnt into a political term that means " super left wing" and calls others who believe in science or those who believe that one is only born male or female and cannot change that are "transphobes". I no longer associate with that term. I just call myself " irreligious" or "not religious" etc. Most(if not all) ideologies of any kind end up being rather extreme and "group think".

Hate to be a negative nancy, but maybe it was good that you did not express gender skeptic views? If I did that at my last TQ+ job, I would've been fired.

Though I do not know your situation with your harrasser, so please excuse my ignorance! If you don't mind me asking, was he harassing you for being gender critical and trying to out you or harassing you...by trying to get into your pants? :( Either way sucks, and once again, sorry that you had to go through that!

[–]endless_assfluff 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Mr. Cute Anime Girls had a crush on me and I thought it would be a good idea to let it slip in conversation that while I was bisexual, I was only looking to date women at the time. Ohhh man. That backfired. His face lit right up. So yeah, the harassment was unwanted sexual comments and it was motivated by the standard boundary-stomping we all know and love.

Yeah, I'm in a less shaky position than most because mathematicians at least understand that "any integer greater than 1 has a unique prime factorization, BELIEVE ME OR I'LL KILL MYSELF!!! TRANS PRIMES ARE PRIMES!!" isn't a valid proof technique. All the gender-pronoun people in my department are good natured. They just aren't motivated to question trans ideology. They believe the intention of this movement is to combat bigotry, and have no reason to suspect that it harms marginalized groups. I can have a productive discussion with highly trained woke people if I focus it from that angle: it's not ok for Mr. Anime to sexually harass me regardless of gender identity, it's understandable that I would be creeped out by his preoccupation with anime lesbians even after he transitioned, and it is not exclusionary if someone sets and enforces sexual boundaries. If I focused instead on how it makes no sense to re-define a word and then pretend all properties of the previous word also apply to the new definition, they'd probably shut me down.

The sad thing is, I'd love to participate in public science discourse, but I don't even feel comfortable saying anything anymore because of the dynamic you identified. For sure, the "science and reason" crowd tends to focus on the parts of science and reason that are rewarding to them, like finding studies that support their pre-existing views, and less on the painful, challenging parts. Studying logic in a formal setting can cause someone to realize how much of their belief system is not actually based on sound reasoning. Because how could they flawlessly implement something they've never studied? But that makes people feel stupid, or insulted, or makes them get defensive, so there's less of an emotional payoff to that than there is for chastising your opponents for being ignorant.

So what happens is I see a discussion around a paper or a meme that uses some kind of reasoning; I think, hell yes, I love papers and reasoning; I mull it over and, if applicable, expand on the idea---or try to gently point out some faulty reasoning if I see it, hoping like a lunatic that OP will be like "yeah, thanks, I consider myself a rational person and therefore am glad to correct faulty reasoning when it appears"---and then some layperson who couldn't prove the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic even if someone showed them how to do it 15 minutes earlier word-slaps me with the fury of a thousand suns for daring to question SCIENCE. So I don't say much online. Yeah, it's just not a good time for anyone.

(Of course I don't mention in these discussions that I'm Dr. Assfluff. That's tacky and counts as an appeal to authority. It also makes it way funnier when someone tries to explain the paper to me.)

Oh, and I don't have to interact with Mr. "It's okay to peek through bathroom stall cracks if you can't tell whether someone's in there" anymore.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand where you're coming from...I used to be an excited "atheist", all about reason, science, and logic.

Me, too (was really ALWAYS atheist; had no religious upbringing-- aka childhood indoctrination-- to speak of). And of course I share your outrage/dismay over what modern atheism has become, with its embrace of gender-woo fanaticism, bro-y entitlement, and overall obnoxiousness.

Seeing the whole movement go to shit like this has taught me one thing, though: atheism ISN'T inherently about reason, science, and logic, as I originally assumed... even if my version of it is. All that it's INHERENTLY about is not believing in deities. The rest is up for grabs. How you got there; what other things you do or don't believe in. Maybe you subscribe to evo-psych bullshit. Or totally think that ghosts, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot are real. Or have conspiracy theories out the ass. Or... believe TWAW. Just because you're convinced that there is no god doesn't mean this must be a product of rationality, or, even if it is, that you always apply rationality elsewhere. Or, for that matter, that you're not an asshole.

Here's to the emergence of a brand of atheism that's more our style, Peach! :)

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

I'm guessing you're in North America, since my university experience didn't (and conceivably never could) involve taking classes in such disparate fields as Spanish, engineering, welding, and costuming. Always found that 'mix and match' aspect of the NA higher education systems really interesting.

My undergraduate study was completed before the cult of Wokery had really infiltrated campuses - over here at any rate, we're always a little behind the United States - and I didn't study anything particularly concerned with social justice anyway, so managed to escape the worst excesses of the nonsense.

It's interesting to note that the sciences don't set much store by this gender nonsense, but then I suppose that's not entirely surprising. Scientists by the very nature wouldn't have a great deal of time for things that cannot be measured, or do not conform to objective, verifiable reality.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I'm in college in the US right now, and I've been forced to take a few classes that are far removed from my degree. In total over 4 years for a bachelors, I need a lower level humanities, an upper level humanities or history class, and another credit that can be whatever psychology, humanities, history, or economics class I want. To avoid confusion, that or in the middle means that there is a single credit that must either be humanities or history and the other two mentioned credits are required in addition for a total of 3 classes unrelated to my degree.

I was able to get a transfered credit from high school for the lower level humanities and am taking economics next semester for the variable degree, but IDK what I'll do for history or humanities.

I would much rather take more economics classes or something else that might relate to my career field, but themes in the humanities it is, apparently

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's so odd to me that you have all these random requirements. As a friend of mine memorably put it:

I'm doing an English degree, not building a house. Why do I need to take algebra?

Here you have to decide on a course of study at about the age of 15, which brings its own slew of problems, certainly, because you have to choose what to study in the final two years of high school. Not all subjects are compulsory in our equivalent of grades 12 and 13, so if you want to study chemistry or music at university you have to study chemistry and music during those two years.

So when you apply to universities you apply to the chemistry / music programmes at those universities, who then do the whole admissions thang and let you in or reject you, usually based on your predicted grades in those subjects. So, if you don't get the grades, no university for you.

(I realise you didn't ask about any of this but I'm here now...)

Once you actually get to university all of your classes will be related to chemistry or music. You might have space for 'elective' modules in your first year where you can study something unrelated to your degree, but even those are limited and will have their own separate entry requirements - it's not a free for all.

If, as some do, you realise 'oh, shit, I don't actually feel as passionately about covalent bonds as I thought I do, I'd like to do music instead' you'd have a very hard time moving from a chemistry degree to a music degree, you'd have to drop out and start the whole process over again.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Well, in America (where we actually don't have a grade 13, "free and appropriate education" ends at grade 12 where students should be around 18 years old), a lot of the universities seem to be a bit more flexible on your high school roster. While it can help to have taken relevant classes in your sophomore and senior year, especially those which allow transfered credits, colleges seem ready to fill gaps so long as they aren't too large. If you, say, wanted to study to be a mathematician, you don't need to have already taken a year or two of calculus, but you should have been taking a math class all 4 years of high school.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm doing an English degree, not building a house. Why do I need to take algebra?

Presumably because he might still want to buy a house at some point? Lol this is such a dumb argument. Understanding basic algebra is not a huge ask. Mortgages, taxes, bills, budgeting, understanding news statistics like the spread of a pandemic, the rate of climate change and whether, or not someone has committed voter fraud; these are all things that a basic, voting citizen needs to know. I want to build houses and I still needed to take English because there's more to life than building houses.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well your snotty tone was unnecessary. We do 'basic algebra' in high school, we don't need to take classes at university level.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I strive to be as memorable as your stupid friends. People go to university with a variety of educational and career backgrounds, if it's review for you, enjoy it as the GPA booster that it is. That's how I viewed my mandatory English credits.

[–]HelloMomo[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My classes are eclectic because it's a community college, and I'm just doing it on the side, not working toward any degree. So I literally just picked whatever looked interesting to me. Also, with online classes because covid, I can be in the costuming class that's actually from a college 2 towns away.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wanted to say I had this experience as well, lol. Engineering classes sometimes drove me batty, but at least they were grounded in reality.

[–]deftoneslettucetomcat 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I work in tech and the techy education I went through (not uni) was mildly woke (I live in the UK) and right now I can mostly brush it off without participating. Still gets on my nerves though.

I'm put off of art and language now because of the TRA bullshit. I may study online when I decide to attend uni, hopefully that will help a little.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yes, I hate how the art community is plagued with gender identity crap---this is coming from a hobby artist. As for languages... I don't really notice that in language learning community except for English speaking? Maybe it's the particular languages I learnt or that I speak that are very "gender divided" so there is no room for "non-binary", or any of that crap really.

...I can relate to the tech job too. Mine was infected by TQ+ and super left wing politics ...every.damn.day. I'm out of there now though and in a different field at the moment.

If you're interested in non-infested language learning places, I have resources! :)

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I studied everything from painting to drawing to human sexuality to language and english (just finished) and not a single utter of TRA rhetoric or pronouns. Maybe because it was a community college...? People had more important things on their plates. Don't think I even saw a single trans person there.

[–]deftoneslettucetomcat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh yes please, I'd be interested in the resources.

English is my first language and while I know multiple languages, I want to study English language and linguistics. I just don't know how much of the future curriculum will be put towards TRA bullshit, and how much I'd have to censor myself if I choose to analyse something. I also adore philosophy and psychology, and I don't know, can we trust the latter these days?

I think the genderites in tech and uni need to learn to struggle in life a little lmao. There's more to life than accessorising your lack of personality with pronouns. (Not directed towards the people who have suffered sexual abuse or anything like that, I know gender can be an escape.)

What field are you in if you don't mind me asking?

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I PMed you list of language learning resources I use/have used. :)

Sure, I studied for cpu engineering and it is my hobby fixing cpus and being a privacy advocate but I never finish degree so...I only get lower end tech support desk jobs. But new job is not tech related at all, it's administrative job... though it pays better than the TQ+ tech job.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well if anyone tries pulling pronouns in a welding class (Certainly, lots to learn about welding from a book, but most of it is hands-on: how can you do that online?), get a bag or balloon, fill it full of an O2, acetylene mix, and chuck it into their sparks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqsAUADcjug

Totally a balloon in that video.

TV remote will also trigger the auto helmets, FYI... honestly there's tons of stuff. Just go on YouTube.

[–]HelloMomo[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

XD

I really don't think that'll be necessary. Yes, AGPs are usually masculine men, and yes, there are masculine men in welding. But like... they're not that too-much-in-their-head nerd boy type? I'm really exited about this welding class; it seems very solid and practical.

I've got this hypothesis that gender ideology is feed by a broader disconnect of people with their bodies in the modern world, where office jobs are the norm, and exercising is something that people put aside time to do, rather than naturally doing the course of their day. I think that vocational training in hands-on work is one way to counteract that.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's depressing to me that the pronouns thing is as widespread as it is.

[–]fuck_reddit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A person with “they/them” in their username wrote “autoridadx” in my spanish class and i almost had a conniption fit over the destruction and bastardization of the Spanish language. It was even worse cause i dont think the professor did anything about it.

[–]fuck_reddit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A science department at my uni tried to get a tenured professor fired for revealing that there was flat out misandry and anti-white racism in the hiring process. He claimed people would flat out say “we need fewer men/white people for this position.”

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh identity politics annoys me both ways. Hiring should be a completely blind process. Whoever's the best gets the job, why's that so hard?

[–]Constantine 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's important to note that, by and large in my experience, it's the students in the humanities classes who are peddling this nonsense, not the professors. There are a few younger profs (especially in Sociology) who are, but by and large the professors are there to teach critical thinking skills and are either oblivious, concerned, or just wholly confused by all the woke stuff spreading across the student body like wildfire.

The woke students often target these professors and try to have them fired for not bowing to their every ridiculous whim. Let's place the blame where it belongs: Tumblr and other social media sites which are full of pedophiles and AGP creeps indoctrinating kids. Then those kids, by virtue of their age, inevitably end up on a college campuses and chaos ensues. Screeching right-wing, anti-intellectual creeds about evil professors indoctrinating students (I'm not saying that's what people are doing here, just a warning) isn't going to help matters.

I do fear the fact that the older members of the Tumblr generation are now becoming graduate students or young professors who will have no qualms with literal indoctrination, however. It may have started on Tumblr, but it's not limited to that domain anymore.