Are the TQs right or wrong in saying that the brains of gay people are structured like the brains of their opposite sex by which they mean gay men are psychologically women and gay women are psychologically men?

submitted by EverydayIsSad from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–]GConly 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

No they are incorrect.

Despite what radical feminists will tell you, yes you can tell someone's sex from their brain about 95% plus of the time. The tricky brains belong to homosexuals, who are intermediate to both sexes. There's not much difference between a gay man and gay woman.

This matters, because children with gender dysphoria are about 90% gay as adults.

So when the MRI studies were done on people with gender dysphoria in childhood, they were picking up the 'intersexness' of their gay brains, not anything to do with being trans.

A couple of researchers specifically corrected for this, comparing gay trans to gay cis, and heterosexual trans to heterosexual cis.

Turns out that the trans brains were normally sexually developed. What did show up as different was a connective tissue bundle called the IFOF, which was abnormal but only in transwomen, and even then some of them still came into the normal range, mainly in the hetero trans.

The IFOF gets implicated in a lot of mental health conditions, including OCD and anxiety and body image issues.

I'll paste the papers below

New MRI Studies Support the Blanchard Typology of Male-to-Female Transsexualism

T]he brains of both homosexual and heterosexual male-to-female transsexuals probably differ from the brains of typical heterosexual men, but in different ways. In homosexual male-to-female transsexuals, the difference does involve sex-dimorphic structures, and the nature of the difference is a shift in the female-typical direction. If there is any neuroanatomic intersexuality, it is in the homosexual group. In heterosexual male-to-female transsexuals, the difference may not involve sex-dimorphic structures at all, and the nature of the structural difference is not necessarily along the male–female dimension.

As Savic and Arver themselves emphasized, “Contrary to the primary hypothesis, no sex-atypical features with signs of ‘feminization’ were detected in the transsexual group….The present study does not support the dogma that [male-to-female transsexuals] have atypical sex dimorphism in the brain”

Savic also did another paper:

Structural connections in the brain in relation to gender identity and sexual orientation

After controlling for sexual orientation, the transgender groups showed sex-typical FA-values. The only exception was the right inferior fronto-occipital tract, connecting parietal and frontal brain areas that mediate own body perception.

It's also a fact the overwhelming majority of trans never had childhood GD.

A Critique of the Brain-Sex Theory ofTranssexualism 2007

In 2002, the brain-sex theory of transsexualism was seriously challenged by someunexpected findings published by Chung, De Vries, and Swaab. They observed thatsignificant sexual dimorphism in BSTc volume and neuron number does not develop inhumans until adulthood. Most MtF transsexuals, however, report that their feelings ofgender dysphoria began in early childhood. The mostly likely explanation: The Zhou/Kruijver findings reflect the effects of feminizing and masculinizing hormone therapy*

What is odd is that there's psychiatric issue called BIID, where people believe they should be missing a body part or disabled... 19% of them are also transgender, and this is from a time where the rate of trans was one in several thousand in the general population.

[–]MyLongestJourney 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

yes you can tell someone's sex from their brain about 95% plus of the time.

The only studies that have claimed to accomplish this come from a single scientific team,so forgive me if I am skeptical.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 15 insightful - 5 fun15 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Remember there was a study where 50 percent of woman had "male brain" LMAO

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Which study?

[–]GConly 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

We'll, I have three here. So this obviously isn't coming from a single team.

Brain Differences Between Men and Women: Evidence From Deep Learning

The proposed 3D CNN yielded a better classification result (93.3%)

Patterns in the human brain mosaic discriminate males from females

Classification accuracy was extremely high [accuracy: 93%, 95% confidence interval (CI) 89.5–94.9%, P < 10−16] and remained significant if head-size-related measurements were excluded [92% (CI 88.9–94.5%), P < 10−16] or regressed out [70% (CI 65.0–74.2%), P < 10−6]. To borrow the framing of Joel et al

Gender Differences Are Encoded Differently in the Structure and Function of the Human Brain Revealed by Multimodal MRI

The multivariate pattern analyses revealed that each of these measures had discriminative power to successfully distinguish between genders (classification accuracy: 94.3%, 90.73%, and 83.89% for GMV, ReHo, and FC, respectively) and their combination further improved the classification performance (96.6%).

Also Savic and Burke's and Ramettis work all accept that you can tell a brains sex, so it seems to be a pretty widely held opinion among neurobiologists.

More work showing brain sex is detectable.

Sex Differences in the Adult Human Brain: Evidence from 5216 UK Biobank Participants

[–]latuspodSuper Straight 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This all makes perfect sense if you actually think about it. Women and men are different obviously, different interests, different personality traits on average. Of course there are going to be differences in the brain. But if you look at the brain as a whole there will actually be a huge amount of overlap and little difference as well, we are the same species afterall. If you try to say there is no difference between man's brain or a woman's you are like half a step from saying there is no such thing as a woman or a man.

[–]motss-pb 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Determining someone's sex from their brain with 95% accuracy isn't all that impressive. Just by knowing that a person is sexually attracted to men, I can guess that the person is a woman and be right roughly 95% of the time. By knowing a person's height, I can determine their sex with about 83% accuracy.

[–]KingDickThe2nd 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's not much difference between a gay man and gay woman.

What is your source for that?

From the articles I read (although this was 5 years ago now, so possibly could be outdated) stated that there was still a gulf in difference between brains of all males and females, but that yes some were more slightly closer in a relative sense. Roughly the equivalent of 2 untouching bell curves.

[–]a_blue_bird 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As Savic and Arver themselves emphasized, “Contrary to the primary hypothesis, no sex-atypical features with signs of ‘feminization’ were detected in the transsexual group

Later I'll try to find the relevant studies, but there are some that have found male pedophiles to have feminized brain structures. Which is a clear indication that ''feminized regions'' in a male brain is not the same thing as a woman having the same type of ''feminized'' regions in her female brain. If ''feminized'' regions in male transsexuals are found, it needs further study to determine what effects they are having, and not simply assumed that oh well, they must be women then, because 1% of their male typical brain is showing some "feminization" (which itself doesn't even mean female-typical).

Edit: I wrote this because it reminded me that AGP males were also found to have some ''feminized'' regions, but different ones than homosexual males did.