LGB ErasureThere's no such thing as "bi lesbian" or "bi gay". Quit this bullshit

submitted by DisillusionedDrop the T like it's hot from (i.imgur.com)

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[–]PopeyesChicken 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Lesbians care because we are already not taken seriously and assumed to be bisexual which leads to a lot of harassment, fetishization, invalidation and abuse. The number of bi and trans women abusing the lesbian label is adding to that VERY QUICKLY and also they outnumber us, so they can actually change the definition by doing this and essentially erasing us. They have a really easy time doing this too, as usually bi and trans women are the ones who are in charge of lesbian spaces.

As a dude, I think you have a totally opposite perspective on this because most people think all bi men are gay, hell they even think straight men who experimented once are gay for even thinking about it. So of course you wouldn’t see the problem because people dont take bi men seriously anyway, annnd gay men outnumber them in the community. Plus there is far less to be gained from falsely claiming to be a gay man, whereas lesbians are fetishized so a lot of straight and bi women like to say it to appeal to men. Hence why “bi lesbian” is a lot bigger than “bi gay”

TL;DR: almost all of the consequences for this are going to hit lesbians way more than gay men, so this seems tone deaf

Also, they can already use homoflexible and heteroflexible. They don’t want to. They want that lesbian label because it’s seen as sexy for women and their husbands like it.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is depressing to say, but as long as you're female you're going to experience all of those things. Actually, even if you're just "woman-like" or feminine enough you can experience all those things.

Shitty men CANNOT be reasoned with. Saying "um actually I'm not into men ever" doesn't stop them, does it? Just as me saying "I'm straight" or "I don't like guys" doesn't stop guys from creeping on me because I'm a feminine male. In fact these types of men often see "unobtainable" ones as a PRIZE and might be MORE likely to go after a lesbian than a bi woman as some kind of "trophy," or in the gay version, might be more likely to go after a straight boy.

Men are not going to stop being gross no matter what you do, so shitting on bi people and making up overdramatic stories about how bi people calling themselves lesbian are gay are "Literally getting us homosexuals forcibly converted" achieves nothing but infighting. You're just wasting your energy by trying to prove to them that you're the 100% most homosexual to ever homosex, because they couldn't give less of a shit! Those men see women (& sometimes feminine males) as pieces of meat, it doesn't matter what labels they use, it doesn't matter how they define themselves. And even if you convince them you ONLY like women? Well they're just going to declare themselves women and try from that angle.

It sucks but it's the harsh truth. Believe me I WISH there was a magic phrase or tactic for making them stop, but there isn't. And no offense but at least if you're a lesbian you get to have a female partner. I'm gay and I don't think there will ever be a male who doesn't see me as an object, and I don't have the option of just getting a girlfriend because I'm simply not attracted to them.

because most people think all bi men are gay, hell they even think straight men who experimented once are gay for even thinking about it.

In my experience this goes for bi people of both sexes, and both ways. People struggle to understand the concept of bisexual, period. They think there is only straight or gay and bi people are usually said to be gay/straight depending on who they're with at the time.

Also, they can already use homoflexible and heteroflexible. They don’t want to.

They do, but every time they use it, someone makes a whiny post about how it's "literlaly oppressing the gays!" so they stop using it...

They want that lesbian label because it’s seen as sexy for women and their husbands like it.

I don't think this is the case. I think they want the lesbian label solely because social media like Tumblr and Twitter has glamorized the hell of it, and make it look super "pure" and "aesthetic" with all this "sapphic" and "lesbian fairy gfs uwu" crap. Making it look more PG and fairytale than anything else. The same happens with gay relationships with all he "soft mlm muhluhmuhhhh cute precious gays." It's embarrassing.

Plus there is far less to be gained from falsely claiming to be a gay man

...Clearly you've never met fujoshi. No, you're tone deaf for thinking that lesbians have it the worst and no one else can compare. It's not a competition.

[–]PopeyesChicken 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The level of misinterpretation of pretty much everything I said is exhausting. It’s almost like you’re doing it on purpose.

  • fujoshi exist but that is a totally different issue. that’s more like trans women. straight men are not going around demanding to be called gay men but women are doing that to lesbians. There is a reason for that

  • who said I was just talking about abuse from men? we get the same shit from women. they often work with men to be predatory towards us. even if it was solely from men, women don’t get a free pass on purposely erasing gay people from their own definitions and spaces just because “men super bad!!”. Going around telling people lesbians like men too doesn’t stop being fucked up just because you’re a girl. especially when a lot of times they do that for homophobic reasons to begin with

  • aesthetic and tumblr is part of it too, but so is the sexualization of lesbians. it happens all the time.

  • so much for not making it a competition, with the “at least lesbians get to have partners”

  • they literally have like 50000 sexualities at this point and you’re seriously claiming they’re insisting on fighting for the word lesbian just because they have no other option? they’re being fought on this too. they just don’t give a shit about us. and they deserve to be called out for that.

You know, as a gay guy, it’s understandable why you wouldn’t feel the same way towards this issue. But using an experience that is entirely different to deny the experiences of lesbians, minimize every problem they bring up, and essentially tell them to shut up and get over it is fucked up. We already have almost nowhere where we can even talk because of these people (while gay men still have that). There is a reason why we are being affected differently than you on certain issues and a lot of it comes down to sexism and institutional power. People should not be shouted down and accused of wanting to be victims for acknowledging very obvious differences in treatment. Saying lesbians are more fetishized than gay men and that straight and bi women often pretend to be lesbians is objectively true. It isn’t an attack on gay men to speak about it in one of the only places we even have, against people who outnumber and harass us. Those are men AND women. That has nothing to do with being the bigger victim overall. It is a specific issue, and extremely obvious.

Yet it seems like you don’t even TRY to listen. Its extremely crappy, especially coming from someone who SO FREQUENTLY vents about their personal issues online. And I always upvoted you for it, even on drop the T. It would never occur to me to hear something like a gay man saying “we fear violence from straight men” and tell him to shut up because those lesbians on the bus in London got beat up, or say “well women fear it too so get over it”. But it seems like that’s very natural for you to do, and it’s a shame given that again, I’ve always been supportive (though a lurker) when I saw you talking about how you felt. I really hope you stop doing stuff like this.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The level of misinterpretation of pretty much everything I said is exhausting. It’s almost like you’re doing it on purpose.

Then be clearer because it's not my fault if I'm off the mark. These arguments rarely make sense to me. I mean you're arguing the idea that bi people taking a trivial label "oppresses" you so how the hell am I supposed to clearly see the logic behind that?

straight men are not going around demanding to be called gay men but women are doing that to lesbians

?? No they are literally not lmao. The closest I've ever seen is "Bi lesbians" who are bi women more attracted to women than men or may choose to only date women. So literally like "febfem" as radfems say but without that radfem coded term. And guess what? "Bi gay" men exist just as much as those do, I have met a lot of guys who were technically bi but called themselves gay because they strongly preferred dudes. It does not "oppress me", it does not magically make women start barbarically "converting" me or throwing themselves at me. It does not affect me in any way.

we get the same shit from women. they often work with men to be predatory towards us.

Ah yes the whole "everyone who isn't a radical feminist lesbian is conspiring against me" belief. And you wonder why people don't tend to think very much of you (hint: it's not "Misogyny", it's the victim complex.) Though to be fair males have their own versions of this too, like, when I see gay communities whine about how bi men and women are destroying them and the feminists are taking over society. It's pretty sad and hilarious.

so much for not making it a competition, with the “at least lesbians get to have partners”

*At least you get to have FEMALE partners.

Never said I cant have partners, I just cant have decent ones

they literally have like 50000 sexualities at this point and you’re seriously claiming they’re insisting on fighting for the word lesbian just because they have no other option? they’re being fought on this too. they just don’t give a shit about us. and they deserve to be called out for that.

I haven't seen a ton of sexualities for homo/heteroflexible, actually. If you have a better proposal (that isn't "tHEY'RE JUST BI!1111one") feel free to say so.

Also it's not that they "have no other option." They just prefer it. I know that makes you mad, but like I said, lots of bi guys consider themselves gay and use that label. So fucking what? It's a word. It's not the end of the world.

it’s understandable why you wouldn’t feel the same way towards this issue. But using an experience that is entirely different

It's funny how we're totally different and incomparable until we're not and uwu solidarity~~~ I hate to break it to you but both can't exist. This is why the LGBT needs to be entirely dismantled. And as I said to someone else, since some lesbians want to "get the L out" apparently, why don't they? I'd be all for it and I want to "get the G out" too.

deny the experiences of lesbians, minimize every problem they bring up, and essentially tell them to shut up and get over it is fucked up.

Hyperbole. I never said any of that. I never said you don't go through shit. Just that... your shit is not any more important than anyone else's. Lesbians aren't the Ultimate Victims who everyone else holds privilege over. Your experiences also don't grant you the right to shit on others. I've been through hell because of my sexuality, and I still am. Some of the guys who sexually mistreated me were bi guys, but do you see me hating on bi people and claiming that bi guys who call themselves gay are literally hurting me? No. it achieves nothing other than making you look like a tool. People are not gonna stick up and support lesbians if you keep doing this shit - because you're basically just saying "we have it the worst and everyone else is to blame, fuck them!" so if you think of everyone else so lowly, why would anyone support you? It's exactly like TRAs. They talk bad about everyone and make themselves out to be the only ones allowed to suffer, yet they also demand undying support from everyone. It's exhausting.

It isn’t an attack on gay men to speak about it in one of the only places we even have, against people who outnumber and harass us.

And it isn't an attack on lesbians for me to point out that radfem bullshit is bullshit, or that hating on bi people unnecessarily is cruel. But here we are, with you claiming that I'm "attacking" lesbians for essentially the same reason.

Yet it seems like you don’t even TRY to listen.

Why do you think that is? Because you word things in a way that is aggressive to others. Because you don't consider the feelings of other. You say I vent a lot and I do, but no one listens to me. The lesbian and gay communities specifically have been very nasty in response to my issues. If you want me to understand then you need to try to make me understand. Accusing me of "attacking lesbians" and "hate" and trying to guilt trip me is not going to accuse that. Nor is trying to justify hatred against bi people.

It would never occur to me to hear something like a gay man saying “we fear violence from straight men” and tell him to shut up because those lesbians on the bus in London got beat up, or say “well women fear it too so get over it”.

What are you even talking about now?? Lol... what a strawman. I don't fear violence from straight men, I fear violence from men who want to rape me, aka gay and bi men. But that's "homophobic" of me to say, isn't it? I also said nothing comparable to this. I'm not saying "gay men suffer too so shut up, lesbian!" I'm saying "Hey, your experiences don't grant you the right to shit on bisexual people and accuse them of oppressing you, that's really hurtful."

You wouldn't like it if I started claiming that lesbians using the term "homosexual" was offensive and oppressing gay men because some lesbians are radfems and some radfems are sexist, would you? Then don't do the same thing. It's really that simple. You don't have to "shut up and never talk about your problems." All you have to do is stop blaming bisexual people (Mostly women) for things that predatory men do, and stop making it out like bisexual people are all conspiring against you. It's that easy.

I really hope you stop doing stuff like this.

Don't hold your breath. I don't believe in solidarity, I don't believe in LGBT, but I don't tolerate people attacking a group of people for stupid reasons. I'm always going to stand up for people who recieve unnecessary hate, because I know what it's like myself. So I'm going to keep defending bisexual people.