DiscussionBeing associated with radical feminism is dragging this movement down.

submitted by Astrid2448 from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–]Gearbeta 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

The problem is not with radfems associating themselves with us it's with libfems associating us with radfems. There's an entire Tumblr about this, about how the term terf has been used to harass lesbians. Or like how r/detrans is considered by many TRAs to be a "terf sub" despite them making a great effort to call out radfems trying to derail conversations.

And to be honest we're not caught in a war between two feminism idealogies. We are being almost exclusively attacked by libfems and TRA idealogy. It is they who believe we don't have the right to sexual boundaries and should put ourselves through self conversion therapy so we can fuck them. Radfems don't do this. It is libfems and TRAs who trans young GNC kids not radfems.

And libfems and TRAs started the fight with radfems. Most radfems would have been okay with trans people but then they started invading rape shelters, invading women's sports, changing the language to erase women, transing kids sometimes against the will of the parents, transing kids by enabling homophobic parents (see that lady that beat the shit out of her gay son and then transed him to be a girl). Radfems are defending the hardwon rights of women. And quite frankly I'd say that the current incarnation of radical feminism is a creation of libfems. It's women pushing back against them.

Now I'm not going to say radfems are all great, they have a real problem with people pretending to be lesbians when they're not just because they're mad at men, or saying absolutely terrible shit about men (I saw on Tumblr a radfems proudly proclaiming she would abort any male fetus... ) But so far they have been one of the only groups to consistently fight against TRA nonsense.

[–]Astrid2448[S] 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

We are associated with radfems though. It isn’t some misconception, it’s true. Any anti-TQ group you make will be immediately filled with radfems, like you said they consistently fight against it. And radfems did use detrans to further their beliefs. They often stalk other subreddits, both when they agree with them and when they don’t. And the TRAs do the same thing.

I can understand why you feel that we are not being attacked by radfems as they are definitely more open to listening to LGB people in some contexts. However, I stand by saying their willingness to hear you talk is conditional. They listen because you agree with them on trans issues. If you say anything that goes against their ideology, they are not going to listen to you either. And like TRAs, they don’t treat people they disagree with well, because they see themselves as morally superior. Also like TRAs, this applies if you agree with 90% of what they are saying but don’t agree on the 10%, and they seek to control the narrative. On reddit, they were happy to mass downvote gay people on LGBdroptheT if it meant that the radfems could boost themselves to the top of the page. They are also generally less kind to gay men than they are to lesbians.

I agree that the extremism seen in radical feminism is partially due to liberal feminists attacking women’s rights. However, it isn’t the whole story. Most radfems were already hardcore liberal feminists before becoming upset with them over trans rights issues. Had trans rights activists been less extreme, they would just be part of far left feminism as another loud SJW on Twitter. That’s what I’m pointing out.

I appreciate your thoughts and think you stated them well, btw.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Maybe the issue then is radicals and not radfems... I am still not clear on the difference between a radfem and a gender critical feminist. I know certain ones were trans woman are just men and I will treat them as such, and then others who were like for trans rights but not at the expense of woman’s rights.

[–]Astrid2448[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Gender critical is what radfems call themselves a lot of the time. But I think the distinction is that not all gender critical people are radical feminists. A person who doesn’t believe in trans ideology is gender critical but not necessarily radfem I believe. However, the confusion comes with places like s/gendercritical, where the majority of posters are radfems.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More like /r/GenderCritical, on /s/GenderCritical there much less of them, than it was on reddit. While on Ovarit there much more of them, and even more extreme, than were on reddit (as clear "menhaters" were often banned or downvoted on reddit, as they weren't really feminists at all).

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

are there radfems that believe in trans ideology though? I assumed not which is why I am confused by what the difference is.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All radical feminists are gender critical, but not all gender critical are radical feminists or feminists at all. Even more to say, almost everyone on LGBDropTheT is gender critical (but note gender critical feminist), including you.

[–]Astrid2448[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I haven’t really met any who do either. But I think it’s more like radfems are gender critical but not all gender critical people are radfems? But in my experience most of the time the two are the same.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

ok that makes more sense