Why do people on askgaybros think we were a hatesub?

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[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I hadn't heard Fascist Italy was ok with homosexuals. A google search seems to come up with examples that it wasn't. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22856586

The Right opposes homosexuality because it weakens the military strength of the nation, and undermines the family. The Left opposed homosexuality, because it lowers wages in a family wage context (2 breadwinners with no dependents can afford to work for less than 1 breadwinner with multiple dependents, after the struggle to get women and children out of the labor force).

Italian Fascist unsigned editorial quote: "The deviant male was above all a bourgeois, egoistic and unpatriotic as well as scarcely virile (because he was unfit or reluctant to repeatedly impregnate the female); the deviant female was the too 'modern' woman, Americanized, independent and masculinized. The social damages provoked by these two converging deviants were most serious: a widespread and 'excessive loosening of family hierarchical relations, a decline in the main of that robust virility that fascism, with much love and perseverance, pursues in other ways".

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Fascist Italy was not okay with homosexuality. I wasn't disputing that. But homosexuality has been legal in Italy nationwide since 1890, so at least gay people had some level of privacy under Mussolini, even though he was homophobic. But you are right that right wing homophobia sees homosexuality as a weakness. My point still stands that homophobia exists on the left as well.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I agree, but the reasons are different. In the case of Stalinists and their sympathizers, I think it is for the same reasons as the Right. Stalin was forced into nationalism to build a country after the world revolution did not materialize. He needed mothers and soldiers. That is the economic underpinning of the counter-revolution he represents. But there is also the issue of supply and demand in the labor force, and it is undeniable, that with a family wage convention, where women stay home with the kids, homosexuality puts a downward pressure on wages, and builds resentment. This is most often articulated by examples of gay men spearheading gentrification. I do not think it is a coincidence that gay liberation succeeded as women moved in mass into the workforce, and a two person income per household became the norm. (And also, the draft was deactivated the same year homosexuality was removed from the DSM - also not a coincidence).

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The draft should never have been abolished. Keep it in place.

Gay people make up only 5% of the population. I don't think us having the same freedoms and responsibilities as everybody else would hurt. But a lot of people like Stalin and Hitler never seem to understand this.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You go fight the wars then. You're advocating for involuntary labor - aka slavery. And the draft wasn't abolished. I had to register with the Selective Service System in order to qualify for student loans. This only applies to males, which is my point. Masculinity is defined by the prerequisite traits required for militarism. That is economic underpinning of gender (along with motherhood and reproduction).

You don't have to look to Stalin or Hilter for homosexual persecution. They had that down right here in the good ol' USA.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'm not for sending people to war unless the country is being invaded. I support mandatory military training. For 12 months. It instils discipline in youths. If they want to fight in wars, then can stay on after the 12 months and serve as professionals.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't believe in sacrificing people against their will. What if you prefer the invader? What if your conscription is in Germany in 1942? Conscription removes the rights of the individual entirely and sacrifices their life to some political authority's interests. War is just business by other means. Let the capitalists duke it out amongst themselves and leave workers alone. I don't care what color flag is flying overhead. Nationalism is bullshit. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Treanor/nationstate.html

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Conscription is about responsibility to the community and the country, and rights come with responsibilities.

By the way, I think nationalism is a good thing. If you disagree with me, that's fine. But countries like Japan, Israel and South Korea are nationalist countries. Tell them that nationalism is bullshit, and they will laugh at you.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Tell me what you think of the short essay I linked to in my previous comment. It's the best argument against nationalism I've run across. Nationalism leads to national chauvinism and war (which requires conscription). Better to identify with humanity, and make war impossible.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, I disagree with your essay. I want my country, Ireland, to be at least 95% ethnically Irish. And I make no apology for it.