DiscussionMaking sure we keep transphobia out

submitted by ThiccDropkickGay from (self.LGBDropTheT)

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[–]LilianH 46 insightful - 5 fun46 insightful - 4 fun47 insightful - 5 fun -  (15 children)

Define "transphobia" first.

[–]midnight305 36 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 0 fun37 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same .

Like with how my life's been ruined and turned upside down for being a lesbain. I'm not so sure if I can forgive what they've done to me and thousands of others and is still doing it. Like wgars going to happen if they push a kid to comment suicide....I definitely won't forgive that. No way no how.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

The term transphobia does get thrown around a lot so I should probably be clear that I mean real transphobia. Actually dehumanising people and going after them for who they are and not what they say/believe.

I absolutely think that we shouldn't let baseless accusations of transphobia shut down discussions though - if that's what you were thinking.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

they consider misgendering transphobia... is that real? I agree with your sentiment but their is our definition and theirs.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't really know where I lie on that point. I think if someone has gone through all the steps to transition then potentially? But I also disagree with the random pronouns like ze, zem etc. and I don't think refusing to use them is a sign of contempt for the actual person. What do you think?

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

actually some words like Tr***y I can see being banned here, not sure about other things like gc would use but the lgbdrop banned... ze zem and them always struck me as a little pretensions lol, so I agree that that's a little different. I don't want this sub to attract people who just want to mock T. It will change us into something else. Q we can make fun of all the time though :D

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why can't people just say what they want and others have a thicker skin? What good is debate if you can't say what you really think? Ru Paul got ostracized for saying tranny, and he's said it his entire career. Why should there be language police? The TRAs don't respect us one iota. I've never understood why people get hung up on words, and it seems comically absurd in a context where greater violations and aggression is manifest, to bother over perceived (but not even intended) microaggressions. I don't like having to self censor or police speech at all. If someone doesn't like it, why can't they just scan down to the next comment?

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Tranny will attract the wrong crowd was my only point.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lack of complete compliance is transphobia. That is its literal definition imho. Transphobia = lack of compliance. Nothing more. It is a blunt tool to bludgeon people into towing the line.

Nothing more. Any and all meaning it may of once had has been lost due to re-purposing over time.

[–][deleted] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

To be fair, I can imagine people are increasingly fed up because of the asymmetrical warfare going on. You can be the best possible person and seek to refute the innate homophobia of gender ideology, and the horrific discrimination by the trans activists on display against gay and lesbian people, and even simply posting screenshots of what they are saying themselves gets you banned. You're maligned, hated, mistreated, and discriminated against, just for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.

You have to admit that's extremely difficult to respond to in a "nice" way, when it's obvious the kind of thing these activists are seeking to do. They don't want conversation. They want elimination. That's why it's always extremely difficult, because it's inherently unfair. They get to say/do whatever they want, call me and other people names, make us lose our jobs and friends and family, and then it behooves us not to treat them in kind? I have to admit, that's a tall order.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It is difficult, but just remember that you're not doing it for them, you're doing it for yourself.

At the end of the day, mucking in the mud with them just gets you as dirty as they are. The way to win their game is not to be tricked into playing it. We can call out their homophobia without stooping to their level and calling them names and harassing them, and at the end of the day we'll be glad we did.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In the first case, I'm not talking about myself. I'm too old to have such anger anymore by far. However, what I absolutely do think is invalid is this notion that such anger is never deserved, or should never be expressed nor spoken. On the contrary, I can well imagine plenty of people have been directly targeted for harassment by "LGBT" groups that are just "T" ones who have noplace to speak out to begin with. Not to mention all the blatant hypocrisy by such people which, near as I can figure, has no place here. It is entirely unfair to declare such people "dirty" or "rooting in the mud" when they're simply reacting to the mud pit thrown onto them in the first place.

[–]deliciousdogfoodmy name isnt a puppyplay reference i swear 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's entirely possible to vent and criticize their godawful behavior without resorting to the kind of personal attacks a functional definition of transphobia would include, is the point I'm trying to make. I'm not saying that our grievances should not be aired or that our criticisms should just be swallowed. Ensuring we have the same context here, I would not consider "Trans women are not women" to be dirty or shit slinging. I would consider personal attacks, slurs, etc. that don't evolve into meaningful conversation to be shit slinging.

The purpose of my analogy was not to say that retaliating makes one "dirty" (As taken out of context it sounds like a very harsh criticism of the person, rather than a simple description of the consequences of a behavior) and I do apologize for any undue offence as I'm not here to try attacking anyone. I simply believe that retaliating and playing their games will do far more for their narrative than our cause.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think transphobia is fear of trans ideology, and is a legitimate position. Mudslinging and insults are just bad behavior and shouldn't be part of any adult discourse, regardless of the topic.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I disagree. I'm a free speech absolutist. When I was a kid, I remember frequently hearing "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." When did the commitment to freedom of speech (a prerequisite to thinking) go away? I don't believe it is possible to bully or attack someone you aren't even addressing and don't know exists. When talking about ideas, what they are calling hate is actually just heresy. Well I'm an unrepentant heretic on this issue.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But what if you are legitimately afraid of an idea that, in Iran at least, compels homosexuals to have genital surgery because homosexuality is punished by hanging, while the state pays for sex changes? That's a frightening ideology. Remember The Gendercator? That lesbian filmmaker saw all of this coming years ago.

I'm naziphobic. Is that a hateful thing? Some ideas are just scary.