GC Migrant Bird here. I can't believe how much they lied about us.

submitted by Kimaris from (self.Introductions)

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[–]VulpesLeonesque 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Thanks for the clear statement about what GC actually believed. And I agree that people's sexual preferences are their own business (and just are, can't be forced), and that trans women have no business competing in women's sports.

I do wonder though; where should they go when they need to piss?

[–]CaliforniGinger 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Obviously genital checks cannot be a thing. However, well intentioned trans women should use the men's bathroom. And many trans people advocate against self ID. Why? Because if you say that men are dangerous to trans women (which... severe lack of evidence on that in re: bathroom use, there is no murder epidemic either, and when trans women are killed it's usually by a long time sexual partner so not gay panic) and then you allow self ID, all you're doing is giving bad men ANOTHER place to prey on trans women - and now allowing them to do so to women and girls, also.

Women are not meat shields. Trans activists can campaign for third bathrooms if they want.

[–]VulpesLeonesque 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So they should use the men's room, there's no evidence they'd be in any danger because it's long-time partners who kill them, and if they use the women's they prey on women and girls. Got that.

I really like the idea of no censorship, no downvote button and a huge influx of refugees from weird reddit echo-chambers!

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obviously genital checks cannot be a thing

A lot of the places people would use shared bathrooms regularly are work or school, where the employer or school would know the person's sex without needing to "check".

[–]skeech 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Women are not meat shields

some are.

[–]Kimaris[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Males should go to the men's and vice versa. Either that or they get their own bathrooms. Also I believe that people should stay in their own lane. These people are really too much. It's disgusting how males who didn't perform well in their categories would suddenly enter the women's and shamelessly rejoice in winning against them. Why would they be proud in doing that? It's pathetic.

[–]VulpesLeonesque 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, they definitely don't belong in women's sports. That's like able-bodied people competing in the paralympics.

Do you think some might be using women's bathrooms just to piss and shit, and a) not preying on women and b) passing as women? What do you think we should do about them?

[–]Kimaris[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There has already been video evidences of them jerking off and harming people in the female bathrooms but ok. As for the men who just wants to piss and shit. Why does it make it okay that that they can make women feel uncomfortable in their spaces? You know that age old joke of women taking too long in the bathroom? There's actually a good reason for that. Bathroom anxiety. Yes. Even without the transwomen issue. Women are already anxious enough as it is. Sometimes women are even embarrassed that other women can hear noises from their bodies. That's why in japan the public toilets have music options. Women also has a messier procedure compared to men. Which would make them take even longer and more anxious. Women also uses the bathroom as an escape from stalkers. People say that nothing is stopping a rapist from entering but this isn't true. Everyone in society would see that if a man follows a woman into a female bathroom that they're up to no good. So, yes bathrooms do save women from rape and assault. Women also go there for quiet and to calm themselves down. Now add a transwoman into the mix.

It's easy to see how this would ruin it for women. I haven't heard of transwomen being assaulted by men in the male bathrooms so I don't know why they can't use it. Most of these transwomen still has their parts anyway. If they really want to be seen as people that are not a threat to women, they should be able to respect women and let their spaces be. Because despite of all their remarks that it's just a bogeyman, it never happens. It does. There's also been studies about unisex bathrooms and how the risk of women being harmed increases. Because that's what's gonna happen the women's bathrooms will technically become unisex ones. Because they still have a different genitalia!

Again. They should have their own bathrooms. Btw I don't agree with transmen infiltratin men's bathrooms either. Pretty sure there are some men who would be uncomfortable if an obvious woman is pretend peeing next to them in the urinal.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do wonder though; where should they go when they need to piss?

Same place everyone else of their sex goes? Or single-use stalls which might be nicer for everyone.

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Depends. Why do you think bathrooms are segregated?

[–]VulpesLeonesque 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because that was the obvious way to do it when the sexes were quite definitely different and everyone agreed on that, and society didn't have the need to deal with a situation where not everybody does. Now we all need our own cubicle with sink like a mini-disabled-bathroom, to deal with the bathroom anxiety and weirdos going in there to jerk off like someone else has been telling me about.

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The sexes are still quite definitely different, it's just that genders are changing. Or genders are staying the same and people are asking to be reclassified as the other sex/gender. Please be specific: it's not 'weirdos', it's overwhelmingly men/males. And if women are anxious about men, it's because they have exceedingly good reason to be.

I mean, if you don't think bathrooms need to be segregated by sex, then I guess people can urinate wherever they please. Individual cubicles seem pretty safe to me. But on the other hand, I've seen women reporting that they were harassed, spied on, or assaulted in bathrooms. So I would want an actual empirical risk assessment to show that mixed sex toilets are safe before I agreed to them.

Changing rooms are something else. They're segregated by sex because males have a nasty statistical tendency to sexually harass and assault females, and we therefore have a thoroughly justified desire not to get naked in the same space as them. Same for prisons and shelters. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there will never be a risk assessment that shows this to be safe. But I'll change my mind if I see it, just like I'll change my mind about other things for which there is extraordinary evidence, if other, even more extraordinary evidence is provided.

Also, even if it's about something less than safety, like privacy or feeling comfortable, the question is, do you think females deserve the right to freedom of association in a society that remains, in significant ways, sexist, dangerous and uncomfortable for women? I do. So I think if women say they want single sex spaces--and many of them do in fact say this--then you need single sex spaces. I wish trans rights activists would push for third spaces. They seem to have a lot of funding, passion, and the ears of NGOs and policy makers. They could make it happen. But their goal isn't merely safety and dignity for trans people, it's full integration into their chosen sex/gender categories, including social validation of their identities.

[–]VulpesLeonesque 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

From my point of view, that of a man/male who like the overwhelming majority of other men/males, has never felt any desire to masturbate in public places, it IS weirdos.

"I mean, if you don't think bathrooms need to be segregated by sex, then I guess people can urinate wherever they please."

C'mon, that's not good-faith communicating; when did I say that? I said I'd like to replace all bathrooms with multiple mini-disabled-bathroom-style cubicles so we all get our own cosy little place to egest and wash, and don't have to deal with anyone else, of either sex or any gender.

I think both men and women need their own spaces to relax and be themselves without having to concern themselves with relating to the opposite sex, for a while.

All of you guys are very keen to tell me how threatened you feel by trans people, and I don't disbelieve you. What do you want done about them, though? Don't respond with another essay about how they're only doing it to threaten women and jerk off in public; my solution is lots of little cubicles, what's yours?

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I wasn't communicating in bad faith; Your words "when the sexes were quite definitely different' left me unclear about what you believe. I wasn't sure whether you think bathrooms should be single sex. Lots of people don't think they need to be, so I wasn't wilfully misinterpreting you here--just a normal misunderstanding.

I think third spaces would be a compassionate and fair solution, and I believe the resources exist to make them a reality. I guess lots of self contained single bathrooms would be fine, but I expect that would take up a lot of space and be less practicable, if I understand your idea right (I'm imagining separate rooms, not a row of toilets separated by stalls that don't meet the floor or ceiling). I would be open to legitimate transexuals (I know this word is old fashioned and some people consider it offensive, but I'm not sure what else to call someone who actually 'transitions' as opposed to someone who just self-IDs... 'transgender' incorporates a range of relevantly different people) using whatever toilet they 'pass' in.

[–]VulpesLeonesque 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, seperate rooms, but little ones; can't see that taking up more space than a whole extra bathroom. Solves your problem of not wanting to be in a room with them, and their problem of not wanting to be easily identified by queer-bashers, which seems to me to be at least as likely as them harming women.

As for letting ones who pass use bathrooms, that's kind of like permitting water to be wet, isn't it?

[–]Spikygrasspod 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A whole extra bathroom can have multiple cubicles. But little rooms works for me, because individual spaces are single sex spaces by default.

No, it isn't like water being wet. There's a difference between being entitled to use a facility, and getting away with it because no one notices. I'm sure people prefer to be legally entitled to use the room of their choice.