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[–]anxietyaccount8[S] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

It's not even necessarily that we're jealous of transwomen, they just think that we're closeted "non-binary" or trans men. When our entire point is that we criticize certain gendered labels (calling yourself "non-binary" is completely subjective, unlike calling yourself gay).

Somebody in the thread literally said this:

Speaking as an old person, I think a LOT, and possibly the vast majority, of 2ndwave feminists are nonbinary AFAB&AMAB people

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, speaking as an old person myself, I can confirm that the vast majority of 2nd wave feminists were and are female people of all sexual orientations who rejected and still reject regressive, restricting sex stereotypes - which is all that "gender" and "gender identity" amount to.

[–]Shesstealthy 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So in other words they're ordinary everyday people who never needed a special label.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One of the reasons we didn't need special labels was coz there was no social media or any other platform on which to announce to the world and show off "identity" labels.

[–]Shesstealthy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good point

[–]Shesstealthy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This remains really interesting to me. This person believes anyone who pushes against the gender norms of their time is queer. And that does huge injustice to actual gay/lesbian/bisexual/pan/vaguely not straight enough for it to matter people.

Many years ago I was reading some feminist theory and I came across an article where a lesbian was defined as a woman who did not have any emotkonally dependent relationships with men, something like that. Whatever the definition was I thought gosh, as a single woman I too count as a lesbian. I mentioned it to someone on the same course and she very kindly pointed out that it was a no. It was long ago and I can't remember the language she used but I came away feeling like yeah unless you fall in love sexually with women this is not the name to use for yourself and sexuality and oppression for it are not theoretical.

[–]PenseePansy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think a LOT, and possibly the vast majority, of 2ndwave feminists are nonbinary AFAB&AMAB people

Well, then, they can no longer just dismiss us out of hand, right? Cuz we're The Sacred TwanzTM ourselves! And therefore know whereof we speak!