So apparently, using sites like WomenAreHuman and This Never Happens to show how the Trans ideology is harming Women is "Cherry-picking"

submitted by Kai_Decadence from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]luckystar 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The problem I have is that if a source is too "TERFy" for people they won't even read the link. Womenarehuman has a lot of fantastic data gathered on it but if you send somebody who considers themselves "woke" a link that calls a trans woman a "trans identifying man" they will immediately be turned off because they think misgendering is violence or whatever.

If they're just a generic Democrat type person (ie they believe TWAW because they've been told it's the correct progressive view to have, but they haven't really deeply thought about the issues) I've found you CAN turn people around, or at least open their minds to thinking about the issues in a more multifaceted manner, by showing the most relevant cases like Emilia Decaudin, Rachel McKinnon, Riley Dennis and so on＊. But I have had to collate the information sources on these people together on my own because I simply can't link a "TERF website" to a left leaning friend without them shutting down as their knee jerk reaction.

Sending info from neutral sources or mainstream media and then discussing the case from as objective an angle I can manage (it's really hard to reduce my own personal bias in these things but I try my best) and just asking questions and letting the other person come to their own conclusions on their own. It might not happen over the course of one conversation and you don't wanna keep bringing it up so many times they get sick of hearing about it, but if it does come up it's important to push back and at least give them information they can process on their own if nothing else.

If they've drunk so much of the woke kool aid that they don't see any problem with the people mentioned above, then they're probably a lost cause and you might want to cut your losses and disengage, if only for you own mental well being.

＊You can try more extreme examples like J. Yaniv, Chris Chan, Stefonknee, Fallon Fox, but many people will say "that's just one weird pervert, every group has a few bad apples"; it also doesn't help that most trans people themselves have distanced themselves from the Yaniv types. I've found the people I listed above are generally applauded and praised for their "trans activism" and they act in ways that are very obviously damaging to women that are almost impossible to support in good faith.

[–]Kai_Decadence[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem I have is that if a source is too "TERFy" for people they won't even read the link. Womenarehuman has a lot of fantastic data gathered on it but if you send somebody who considers themselves "woke" a link that calls a trans woman a "trans identifying man" they will immediately be turned off because they think misgendering is violence or whatever.

Right, another commenter suggested that I just link to the articles themselves and not the compilation websites so they'll be less likely to use the "It's a TERFweb site" excuse so I'm gonna be trying that method from now. It's just ridiculous that they write these sites off as "TERFY". "This Never Happens" was created because people like these were thinking that attacks on women by trans-identified men was a myth and WomenAreHuman was doing this too. It's just disappointing that I can't use those sources because like you said, they have really good data archives, especially WomenAreHuman, it's set up to where you can find anything in a neat organized fashion.

I feel the big problem when trying to explain these things is that people will just think of the HSTS gay men who are on average, no where near as big a threat to women unlike AGPs. The people think that because HSTS are not targeting and harassing women (at least compared to AGP, I haven't really come across any stories of a HSTS attacking a woman), it means that these people are "True trans". And so for that, people will just say that guys like Riley Dennis, Rachel Mckinnon, and Emilia Decaudin are "Outliers" and "don't represent trans people" using the "bad apple" analogy like you mentioned.

I mean, I'm a feminine nonconforming man myself but I find it a bit mentally taxing when it comes to trying to explain why certain trans-identified men (The HSTS) are not assaulting women but just because they aren't assaulting women doesn't make them any more "True trans" than the creepy AGP. But it's hard to form into words sometimes I must admit. And I think for the people who do know a trans-identified man who doesn't act creepy or dominating of conversation, they don't want to discredit their friend and think they are not what they are claiming to be (via women). So they'll focus on their friend and not on the bigger issue and these people are probably the ones who will never really come around.

And right, you definitely won't be changing minds in a day and I'm aware, the goal is to at least get these people to see the other side and considering thinking more critically on what's happening with this trans ideology. It's a slow process but it can be worth it to plant the seeds sortaspeak.