Someone said "let's not just talk about TRA's all the time." Can we finally talk about this? Or are we still too afraid of this, too?

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[–]suzyquattrosshoes 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes it’s a trap - but I think we can still disagree with a practice in principle, while having empathy for women figuring their own shit out in relation to it. Or figuring it out ourselves. At the same time, trying to see things as clearly as possible given material conditions.

Same thing as when we look at porn or sex work. No hate for women entangled in it - empathy for them, criticism of the system.

And we can look at one issue at a time and be complicated and imperfect and still at least aim to be consistent.

None of us is perfect, doesn’t mean we can’t recognize reality. See being a straight woman in a relationship (most comparable to the OP viz a viz social ties, family etc) or wearing makeup etc.

Saying “hey what about Western society!” doesn’t answer the question around veiling specifically. We can discuss Western sexual objectification another time.

As far as veiling, there’s no universe in which it will make sense to me that women and their level of hair exposure are responsible for men’s moral failings.

That said obviously if someone’s feeling pressured to veil (or is punished re veiling), one of course understands.

[–]Spikygrasspod 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yep, you're right, and I disagree on principle with veils for women. The justifications for this practice are blatantly misogynistic, and there's no universe in which it is morally justified to treat women as the location of sexual temptation that causes men's bad behaviour.

I'm just on edge about this because politicians use it to push white supremacist agendas. Like Australia's Pauline Hanson (of the white nationalist 'one nation' party) or Germany's AFD. And I'm pretty sure these people do NOT have in mind a future of equality for women.

Perhaps the solution is to push these opportunistic types to support things that would actually help women. "Oh, so you care about women's lib? Would you like to support my policy that will make things better for women?" That way they would forced to either help, or admit they don't actually care about women.

[–]suzyquattrosshoes 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like it, only problem is those types are never too bothered about cognitive dissonance and they can’t be shamed.

(Although AOC did a good job handling Ted Yoho.)