the role of yaoi/anime bL in the “gay” tif (specifically tumblr/twt) community

submitted by gencritcurious from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wow, so "wokeness" has poisoned all this too, and with a graphic artform that didn't even originate in the west. Figures. (It sounds like we've had very similar experiences btw!) That's sad to hear, a real kind of disruption -- I mean, so many female mangaka (like CLAMP) got their professional starts as fan-artists of other mangaka, including what would come to be known as yaoi.

I hear you about seme/uke, there is pretty tight scripting (especially now that it's selling so well globally). I've found a good alternative to be text novelists like Haruki Murakami, who freely explore the many facets of adult sexuality minus the manga tropes.

[–]throwawayanylogic 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow, so "wokeness" has poisoned all this too, and with a graphic artform that didn't even originate in the west.

FWIW, I am fairly sure (from research myself and friends who were pretty active fannish "historians") that western media slash fandom (focused on written fanfic primarily, secondarily art and then vidding) developed fairly separately from Japanese yaoi/manga/anime m/m fandom. Slash pretty much can trace back concretely to Kirk/Spock in the early 1970s and developed out of the general science fiction book fandom & convention circuit, and I can't say there was much overlap with yaoi fandom, tropes and sources until perhaps the 80s/early 90s? (Some of my friends who date back to the early K/S days mention getting into From Eroica With Love, because of the Led Zeppelin connection/inspiration.) I think the separate development is also why there is some conflict (or at least there used to be) in the fans of each because a lot of my slash fen friends would bristle at those tightly scripted seme/uke roles in yaoi (but then turn around and write m/m fanfic that wasn't that much different, the "top/bottom wars" that would rage in some fandoms, etc.) Sort of how I remember Xena f/f fandom developing in a very "feral" way separate from establish fandom circuits, developing their own unique styles and community "rules"...DK, for a while I was very fascinated by the history of these communities, where they overlapped and how they sometimes sprung up on their own, before everything was so interconnected by social media/web 2.0 sites.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's definitely an organic pattern to the development, Japanese and western. Re-reading some of the posts here, the phrase "Barbara Cartland Refugees" popped into my head . . . the first slash in the ST:TOS days was probably created by an emerging generation of women who just could not with the old formulaic romances and bodice rippers. It almost feels like its lineage should be more detective noir or something, at least for the edge and intrigue and tension.