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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I feel like it’s only ethical when it’s treated as a last resort. I don’t think everything about transitioning is unhealthy, but some of it is and there are so many other areas where we just don’t know long term. There were many transsexuals before me, but I’ve asked questions with my doctor where they would say they didn’t know because there just aren’t that many people who’ve been of hormones that long. It’s still experimental in many ways and there is even less known for trans natal females. We shouldn’t encourage it or treat it like it’s a good thing. I’m really not comfortable with the way culture celebrates it now and praises people.

That said, I feel like I wouldn’t still be here today if I hadn’t been allowed to transition. Maybe that’s wrong and I can’t know what might have happen in the years after if I hadn’t been given treatment, but I was not in a happy place and couldn’t see a future for myself if I wasn’t allowed to live as a girl. I always feel like if medical treatments didn’t exist, I’d probably still be trying to live the same way, but just with a worse quality of life because I wouldn’t have been able to pass as I got older.

I feel strongly that children should be allowed to go through puberty naturally so they can desist. The data shows that most of them will, but not if you interfere with blockers. Blockers themselves aren’t safe either.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There were many transsexuals before me, but I’ve asked questions with my doctor where they would say they didn’t know because there just aren’t that many people who’ve been of hormones that long.

I think your doctor and the medical community in general are being disingenuous. Coz your observation that "there were many transsexuals before" you is true. Or at least it's true when it comes to male transsexuals.

Lots of males going back to the 1960s and 70s have "transitioned" by taking CSHs, T blockers & getting various kinds of surgeries. Their health over the intervening decades could easily have been tracked and studied by medical professionals. If it had been, then today in 2021 there would be a wealth of well-documented medical evidence to draw on to guide males of younger generations like you about the efficacy and health drawbacks of the various "gender confirming treatments" being so widely prescribed today.

But there is no documented body of evidence because earlier generations of male transsexuals did not want their medical histories to be tracked & studied. Surprisingly - or perhaps predictably? - the male doctors who treated earlier generations of male transsexuals also had little to zero interest in tracking the health histories and outcomes of their male patients to gauge the longterm efficacy - and downsides - of the hormone treatments they prescribed, the surgeries they performed and the lifestyle changes they recommended.

I've often found it decidedly odd that prominent early male transsexuals like Jan Morris, who died last year at 94, and Renee Richards, who is now 86, publicly pushed for males like themselves be able to use female spaces, participate in women's sports, and benefit from programs meant for women, yet they and other male transsexuals of their same age and era never advocated that their own physical health and the health of male transsexuals as a group be monitored and studied so that information could be gathered to help out the generations of male transsexuals who would follow them.

I've always found older male transsexuals' reluctance to be studied and their lack of concern for those of their sex who would follow in their footsteps to be quite telling - and not in a way that is to their credit. In fact, it seems to reveal that despite all the CSH and surgeries, at heart they remained decidedly male and incredibly self-centered in their outlook.

This becomes glaringly apparent when you contrast their unwillingness to participate in research for the benefit of future generations with the way that masses of women of their same era clamored for - and volunteered en masse for - research into the impact on women's health of once-standard medical interventions like DES in pregnancy, the use of high-dose hormonal BC pills that were common in the 60s & 70s, copper IUDs, HRT for menopause, radical mastectomy for breast cancer, annual Pap smears for cervical cancer, annual mammograms for breast cancer across age groups, various forms of anesthesia in labor & childbirth, use of forceps in childbirth and many, many other practices.

One of the peculiar - and to me, unfair - results of this decided lack of symmetry is that since the preliminary results of the big US research study known as the Women's Health Initiative were published in 2002, it has become impossible or extremely difficult for the majority of female patients going through menopause in the Western world to get prescriptions for estrogen replacement therapy - and those few who do get prescriptions only get them for very low dose estrogen and for very brief periods of time. Similarly, women well past menopause who develop serious medical issues caused by low or no estrogen - like painful vaginal atrophy, low bone density/frequent fractures, chronic UTIs, urinary incontinence, balding, memory problems - are pretty much plain out of luck nowadays, as it's widely believed by GPs, gynecologists, gerontologists, urologists and even many endocrinologists that prescribing estrogen to female people past a certain age is too dangerous to be worth all the proven and widely-recognized benefits. Yet at the same time, any male person - whether age 18 or 80 - who wants to take estrogen today to "confirm" and "affirm" his opposite-sex gender identity, even when it's clearly just an expression of the sexual fetishism of autogynephilia, can easily get estrogen prescribed on demand - and in extremely high doses too.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I think there should be more information about outcomes than there is. Like you say, there were many male transsexuals years ago. It seems like it easily could have been studied so that we’d have more information. Maybe you right about them being self-centered. I’ve always been surprised when doctors can’t tell me things because it seems like the knowledge would be there. I’ve been treated medically for two decades, which is long time to some I guess, but there are transsexuals older than me would have been treated for a lot longer. Maybe it will become more of priority. I worry about it all being so politicized now though and I feel like maybe researchers would be afraid to publish it if the outcomes were bad.

That does seem really unfair about menopause. I wonder if it’s any better since 2002. I know my mother-in-law is receiving HRT for that, but she is no where near 80. There are a lot of medical issues that can treated with it and every woman should have the option I feel like. It shouldn’t be on demand for male people. That seems crazy to me. It used to not be that way.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Getting HRT for menopause has become easier since 2002. Now doctors will prescribe HRT for severe menopause symptoms, but only for a short-term period - and at much lower doses than what's being prescribed to trans-identified males. Moreover, to get an Rx women have to beg, jump through hoops, try every other possible remedy under the sun first; often women's complaints are just pooh-poohed & we're told to suck it up. Googling "hormone replacement for menopause" just now, one of the first results is this, which is full of caution and warnings: https://www.fda.gov/consumers/free-publications-women/menopause-medicines-help-you

By contrast, when I googled "estrogen for transgender" I got page after page after page of clinics and encouraging articles, which tell of all the "feminizing" changes males can look forward to on E whilst minimizing the risks and being rather nonchalant about the lack of research:

The risk of things like blood clots, heart attacks, strokes, diabetes, and cancer as a result of hormone therapy are minimal, but may be elevated, especially for those with co-existing health conditions or starting hormone therapy after age 50. Generally, the size of any increase in risk for those in good health is small, and may be offset by improvements in quality of life and reductions in stress levels once they taking hormone therapy has begun. The biggest increase in risk when taking estrogen is when it is combined with cigarette smoking. In this case there is an increased risk of blood clots, and probably strokes and heart attacks. For those with an elevated risk of these conditions, or over the age of 50, forms of estrogen that are delivered through the skin, such as a patch, are generally the safest option.

There is not much scientific evidence regarding the risks of cancer in transgender women. We believe the risk of prostate cancer will go down, but we can’t be sure. The risk of breast cancer may increase slightly, but will still be at less of a risk than a non-transgender female. Since there is not a lot of research on the use of estrogen for feminizing treatment, there may be other unknown risks, especially for those who have used estrogen for many years.

https://transcare.ucsf.edu/article/information-estrogen-hormone-therapy

https://www.goodrx.com/blog/estrogen-gender-affirming-hormone-therapy-transgender-care/

I'm of the cohort of women that got royally screwed by the change in attitude towards HRT. I had to have my ovaries removed in the late 1990s coz of a serious medical condition, and since I was still in my 40s I was prescribed HRT (a combo of estrogen with a bit of testosterone; the brand name was Estratest). But after the WHI study results came out in 2002, I was told by all my doctors I'd have to stop right away - no one would prescribe HRT any more. No chance to gradually titrate down by lowering the dose bit by bit; it was no more meds, cold turkey, tough noogies. So boom I was forced into sudden menopause practically overnight.

Since turning 60, I've had increasing problems with painful vaginal atrophy and equally painful, sometimes disabling chronic UTIs, both of which are known to be due to lack of estrogen - but all anyone will prescribe to me is a very low-does cream to apply topically that doesn't help. And all I can get is one single tube, no refills. I have a number of friends my age with similar problems all in the same boat. The medical profession does not care much about women generally, but old women are the bottom of the heap. The way we are treated compared to the way men are treated is night and day. It's one of the many reasons why I have zero sympathy for all the young people today who claim that immediate access to cross-sex hormones is a "human right" for trans-identified people, and that not giving trans-identified people scripts for CSH on demand is tantamount to killing them.

As for the health problems that might be in store, I am worried for people your age. As we have discussed before, it seems that exogenous testosterone is very hard on the female body - perhaps harder than exogenous estrogen and T blockers are on the male body. But I am concerned about the young males too who think they'll be able to take exogenous estradiol and drugs like spiro for 50-60 or more years without any negative effects.

BTW, my schoolmate's father who "transitioned" in 1974 ended up having a number of strokes in the late 80s and early 90s. But his health was shot from all sorts of other problems too - alcoholism, IV drug use, Hep C, Hep B, HIV. He died in the 90s of complications from AIDS.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m so sorry the happened to you. The way women are treated by the medical establishment continues to be really awful.