QT: Do women have a right to boundaries?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from (self.GCdebatesQT)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

That’s pretty naive. Women get attacked in public spaces all the time. And as I said, it’s stupid to attack someone in a public bathroom. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, I know it has. I’m saying all women understand that it being a public space doesn’t mean you’re safe. If somebody wants to attack you, they will figure out how to. They don’t need you to be in the men’s room to do it.

Eta- I’m not saying this to argue or debate, I’m being genuine. If you’re thinking you’re safe from attack because you think you can run away or it’s a public space, that’s not necessarily true and I want anyone who may be vulnerable to know that. I’ve heard too many stories of people getting attacked in public spaces or followed (from a public space) and attacked.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

That doesn’t make any sense. Public means witnesses, more likely someone will help a woman or call for help for a trans woman, easier to flee. Isolation in a private one exit space is as dangerous as you could make it. At least in the open I can try to run.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean... there’s plenty of cases that verify what I said but whatever.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m not saying people can’t be attacked in public, just that it’s not a worse case scenario.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s literally the worse case scenario lmao

The point is that if someone wants to attack someone vulnerable, using a different bathroom isn’t going to stop them. There are plenty of cases of men snatching women out of parking lots, or following them when they leave. Plenty of women have gotten attacked, raped and or killed by men that noticed them in a public setting. You said TW can’t defend themselves against other males, so if another male wants to attack a TW, all he’d have to do is do the same things that men do when they attack women. And if someone is so transphobic that they attack a TW in the men’s room, there’s no reason to dismiss the idea that that same man could attack a TW as/after they leave an establishment. That’s my point.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

You are being incredibly naive here. There have been many documented cases in many different countries over many decades of a girl or woman being attacked by either a single man or a group of men in public whilst many other people watched and decided to do nothing.

Just last week in New York City, a big burly man age 38 attacked a tiny Asian woman age 65 on a midtown street in broad daylight. Once he had flattened her on the sidewalk, he kept kicking her in the head. The film footage shows that several able-bodied, strong looking male people in the prime of their lives witnessed the whole attack - and they responded by closing/locking the door of the building they were in and averting their gaze.

Turns out the man who committed this attack has a particular animosity towards older women. He'd recently been paroled from prison for killing his own mother 20 years ago.

in the open I can try to run.

Yes, that's true - and I hope that's what you'll do in situations where you've been threatened or feel threatened. But please understand that males have many superior abilities over females in physically reacting to a threat, starting to run and continuing to run.

I wish you well and hope you never get attacked. But as a woman who has been attacked and menaced by males in numerous public settings - humped, groped and masturbated at multiple times by pervs on the subway/tube as a teenager & young woman; masturbated at when middle-aged and visibly pregnant in a shopping center; punched in the face in a museum by a crazy man shouting that I was a whore, for example - I can testify with certainty that you are dead wrong in alleging that when girls/women "call for help" in public spaces our calls are usually or always heeded.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

You are being incredibly naive here. There have been many documented cases in many different countries over many decades of a girl or woman being attacked by either a single man or a group of men in public whilst many other people watched and decided to do nothing.

I didn’t say someone would definitely help, I said the chances were higher.

I wish you well and hope you never get attacked.

Thank you, but I must point out I have been attacked. I was attacked by a group of men the last time I ever entered a men’s room. That’s how I am so certain they aren’t safe. Again, it’s not certain someone will help but the odds of help are higher around other people than in a bathroom.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

So you’re saying a woman (why a woman, specifically?) may call for help if they see you getting attacked in public, but nobody would be likely to enter the men’s room or call for help if they heard someone screaming for help or out of pain in the men’s room?

Eta- also, saying you can be attacked in a public space doesn’t mean the hypothetical attacker would be careless enough to blatantly go after you in front of everyone around. They can wait for the opportune moment to go after you. Sad as it is, violent men can be pretty smart about how they get to their victims.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

So you’re saying a woman (why a woman, specifically?) may call for help if they see you getting attacked in public, but nobody would be likely to enter the men’s room or call for help if they heard someone screaming for help or out of pain in the men’s room?

Men wouldn’t try to help a trans woman and women wouldn’t go in the men’s room.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Yeah that’s bs. Women go into men’s rooms all the time just to use the bathroom themselves if for some reason they can’t get to the women’s room. And you don’t have to go into the bathroom to hear someone getting harmed in there and call for help. And just because one man may beat you up doesn’t mean another won’t stop it or at least alert someone that there’s a problem.

It’s really odd that you’d claim that someone would help you anywhere else but the bathroom. That just doesn’t make sense.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

No man will help a trans woman in trouble. Only men go into men’s rooms. It’s that simple.

And exactly how is someone outside the bathroom likely to notice a beating behind a closed door. Maybe if it’s very, very quiet out. At minimum the odds are much less.

I’m not saying bathrooms are the only place we could be attacked, it’s just difficult to escape, exposes us directly to those who would hurt us, isolates from those who might get help, and minimizes witnesses. It’s a near worst case scenario for a victim.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

And I’m just saying it’s bs to act like nobody would ever hear someone get beat up in a bathroom in a public space. I guess if the person getting beat up is completely silent as well as the person beating them up, it’s possible. But the attacker still runs the risk of someone walking in as they beat you up, and still has to deal with what could happen when you leave the bathroom. They have to deal with possible cameras near bathrooms, any one waiting in line to use the bathroom... there’s a lot they’d have to avoid to beat someone up and not be seen or heard

And it’s laughable to act like women don’t ever go into men’s rooms and that no man would ever help a TW when there are men who are allies ans even men who date them. I know plenty of women who have and will use the men’s room in a pinch as well as many male tras.

You don’t have to respond, you’re just gonna act like you speak for the actions of all humanity so you can present TW as perpetual victims that nobody will help and we all know that’s bull.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

And it would still be far easier than doing it in the open. Your denial that men’s bathrooms are dangerous for trans women is honestly boggling. I can’t tell if you are being disingenuous or not because it is just such common sense.

And no, I don’t believe for a second a man would help a trans women in trouble. And just because a guy is willing to have sex with a trans women doesn’t mean he actually cares or respects her.