QT: What about transgender women who are men?

submitted by SnowAssMan from (self.GCdebatesQT)

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[–]emptiedriver 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If you think of yourself as a man, I don’t think you are actually a trans women honestly.

How are you going to think of yourself as transitioning if you do not acknowledge that you begin as a man? If one person believes that the transition is fully successful and they end up with a female body, and another person considers the transition instead a something of a partially useful but ultimately artificial cosmetic surgery, where they still remain male afterward, then they will acknowledge they're still a man. They're just one who is presenting as a woman - a trans woman.

But that doesn't mean they'll try to tell people they are "really" a woman, and should be able to go into places where women compete in sports, or be compared in women's statistics, or take women's medicines, and so forth... In the end, underneath it all, they are still a man - one with dysphoria who is doing the best they can to avoid all the male aspects of society and play the role of a woman, but, physically, the fact remains.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I was always male but never a man. I still am male, but I am not nor have I ever been a man. Just forced to pretend to be one to function in our society.

If someone thinks of themself as a man, then why transition at all? If you think you are an imposter rather than seeking your truth, why do it?

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The definition of woman isn't: 'dysphoric man' though. Dysphoria doesn't change a man into a woman. Even if the dysphoria is so crippling he can't bring himself to admit that he is a man it still wouldn't change him into a woman. I mean, you yourself can still bring yourself to admit to being male, some trans-women argue that trans-women are female. Perhaps to them you are not truly trans for this transgression.

Is gender a binary? If a man's man-essence is compromised enough is he no longer a man, but instead a woman?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve said already you can argue we aren’t women if you want but that doesn’t mean we are men. My point has been calling us men makes no sense.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If someone thinks of themself as a man, then why transition at all?

It's not a question of how you "think of yourself". It's a question of what you ACTUALLY ARE.

There are physical realities that have impacts on bodily capacities when it comes to sports, medicine, & so forth. Someone can think of themselves as someone who should have been a woman, someone who has a female soul or personality, someone who has the essence of a woman on the inside, but it won't change the fact of having a male body, and that's the definition of a man: a person with a male body. That's the part that affects OTHER human beings - they can't see your internal essence. They see the physical reality.

You can explain what you feel by saying you are trans, but you can't make people call it out when they see your male body. A male body = a man. Trans women who understand that just accept that technically, they are men, despite feeling like women. They are respecting OBJECTIVE reality, not insisting that their subjective worldview is confirmed by others.