Gender-critical feminist: I care about the rights and safety of women, so if you disagree with me, you must be a misogynist. Trans activist: I care about the rights and safety of trans people so if you disagree with me, you are a transphobe. This is an abject failure of ideological theory of mind.

submitted by Chipit from (self.Feminism)

This is an abject failure of ideological theory of mind on both sides because trans activists do not, for the most part, hate women. They believe trans women to be women and to be more socially vulnerable than natal women, whose legal rights have already been largely secured, and therefore in need of greater advocacy. Similarly, gender-critical feminists do not usually hate trans women. They believe woman to be a biological category and that women require sex-based rights to ensure their safety, privacy and fair access to sports, and that these will be endangered by straightforwardly accepting trans women as women in every situation. Nevertheless, the conversation, having begun on false premises, can go nowhere except further into accusations of bigotry and hatefulness. Each side tries to win by convincing people of the innocent victimhood of one group and hateful malevolence of the other. This is a horribly toxic way to proceed and not a method that can ever lead to the successful resolution of the problem presented by the few areas in which the rights of natal women and trans women may conflict.

Source: https://areomagazine.com/2020/08/17/ideological-theory-of-mind-how-to-stop-the-culture-wars/

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[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Feminism is not an ideology.

It sounds like you're making a false equivalence. It's not a "both sides" situation. There are plenty of trans spaces online. Are feminists going into those spaces harassing everyone there, claiming their rhetoric is misogynistic, getting them banned, silenced, censored? Nope. But it's happening the other way around. That's the major problem feminists have with transgenderism, more than anything. Trans-men aren't harassing men or women, trans-women aren't harassing men, going on all their porn forums & inserting their trans porn because "TWAW". Only trans-women are doing the harassing, & they are only doing it to women.

The second major issue is how the androcentrism within transgenderism is harming young girls. They are being told that they need to feel as comfortable as men do in their gender, otherwise they are not "cis", they are being told they need to medically transition, they are being told they need to medically transition as early as possible. Female puberty doesn't need to be avoided at all costs like an unwanted male puberty does, & chemical menopause has more consequences than chemical castration. The vast majority of people who detransition are female, which shows you how wrong they are getting it for anyone who is female.

Tying trans-women's rights & protections to women's rights & protections is throwing the two thirds of trans people who don't identify as women (trans-men & non-binary people) under the bus, just so trans-women can feel validated. Trans-women need rights & protections based on their trans status, that is inclusionary of all trans people (since men don't get special protections). TRAs need to start caring about the rights & safety of trans people. Chanting "TWAW" is only inclusionary of trans-men by chance (TMAM), it's exclusionary of non-binary people. The brain sex thing is also exclusionary of non-binary people. So their rhetoric is not only sexist, it's trans exclusionary.

If you criticise feminism for being racist then a dialogue is created to correct this. If you criticise the trans movement for being sexist, or homophobic, or NB-phobic, or detransphobic, you get called a transphobe & silenced.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (18 children)

Are feminists going into those spaces harassing everyone there, claiming their rhetoric is misogynistic, getting them banned, silenced, censored? Nope. But it's happening the other way around.

That's why it's so satisfying to see them get a taste of their own medicine. Poetic justice is rare in real life so we have to savor it when it happens. Feminists were #1 charging into other people's spaces, calling everyone sexist and misogynist, and getting them banned, silenced, and censored.

Now the Frankenstein's monster they created turned on them, in a 100% predictable move, and they don't like it one bit. I thought they might have learned something, but no. They still don't think banning, silencing and censorship is wrong. They're just angry they don't get to do it to others any more.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

You obviously live in your own imagination. Feminists never infiltrated & conquered places online that were full of speech they didn't like. Misogynists do that all day long. Look at reddit. All the feminist subs got banned by men or TRAs, while new misoginistic accounts & subs are made on a daily basis & this is not a new development. This is how it has always been.

feminists didn't create the trans movement. You might as well claim that the gay movement produced it, though that might be closer to the truth. The trans movement is incredibly androcentric, nothing like the feminist movement.

I'm wasting my time with you. You're clearly hopeless.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Feminists never infiltrated & conquered places online that were full of speech they didn't like. Misogynists do that all day long.

You're joking, right? I got banned from feminist subreddits I never even posted in. WTF?

If you think that men's rights groups have any pull on reddit at all, you're delusional. On the other hand, the treatment you got at the hands of trans is the exact same as you gave to everyone else. Lovely. And you learned nothing from it, you still have the same persecution complex.

[–]SnowAssMan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Oh boo-hoo they banned you from their own forum. Stopping you from infiltrating their space ≠ infiltrating others' space. How did you not know that?

There are literally no public feminist subs on reddit left, while there are countless misogynistic ones, so you're the one with the persecution complex. Anti-feminists can't help seeking out feminist forums & being a general nuisance. You're doing it right now.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I didn't post anything on there. I still to this day have no idea why I was banned out of nowhere. See what I mean?

There are literally no public feminist subs on reddit left

LOL the censorship monster you created ate you. What an utterly cliche and avoidable outcome. Surely if there had been some historical precedent, you could have avoided it. Such as defending the speech of others, which is in fact defending your own speech.

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

-- H. L. Mencken

being a general nuisance

You're just angry because you can't ban people any more. Free speech sure sucks, doesn't it! Oh wait, you're against free speech?

So which is it?

[–]SnowAssMan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Of course you posted there, just like you're posting here. Misogynists can't help but obsess over feminism & then crying wolf when they get banned from a feminist sub that they have only ever been hostile to. Cry me a river.

[–]Chipit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Misogynist? I'm not a misogynist. But it's just like a feminist to call anyone winning an argument with her a misogynist. It's the sort of behavior that you people engaged in freely on Reddit, and it was perfectly OK. Then, when other people did the exact same thing to you, it was a hate crime. That's why this is all so wonderful.

It is important not to confound Anti-Feminists with Misogynists, or women haters. Some of the early Church Fathers, John Knox, Schopenhauer and Strindberg, for instance, were Misogynists. They disliked and scorned women as such and found little to say in their favour. But men like Herbert Spencer, Nietzsche and myself are Anti-Feminists. We bear no hostility to women nor do we denigrate them gratuitously. We merely assail and resist that Movement which has endured with more or less prominence and success ever since Hellenic days, and has aimed at driving women from domesticity and the home into industry, public life and, in fact, every male sphere.

Anti-Feminism differs from Misogyny in that, while the former is friendly to normal women, the latter attacks all women. Anti-Feminists see in Feminism a conspiracy against the normally functioning woman; a Movement favourable to a minority of masculinoid females ill-endowed for motherhood, and tending to lure women favourably endowed for motherhood along paths where their psycho-physical needs cannot be satisfied.

-- Anthony M. Ludovici, "Enemies of Women", http://www.anthonymludovici.com/ew_int.htm

[–][deleted]  (7 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Chipit[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

    why are you quoting a man speaking on what is true feminism to women?

    I literally didn't do that. You hallucinated it.

    Go back and read my post. It's about actual misogynists.

    [–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Bye now, misogynist.

    [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Name-calling isn't an argument. In fact, it is explicitly against Saidit's Pyramid of Debate and is grounds to be banned from the site.

    [–]radarladal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    It’s not name calling, it’s a fact. You’re a woman-hating troll. That is an accurate description and not an insult

    [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nope! Provide evidence. You don't have any, it's just name calling. This is explicitly against saidit rules.

    [–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    You have nothing.

    [–]Chipit[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    You didn't actually make any argument there. You just made an unsupported statement and...well that's all you did. Come on, argue! Cite facts! Provide evidence! Bring in some objective experts who support your position!

    [–]radarladal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    What would you know about citing facts? You post link after link here from dubious sources that support your anti-feminist and anti-woman opinion

    [–]radarladal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It’s not so simple. Trans Rights Activisits TRAs do often actively work against feminist goals for equality of women. It might not be based in “hatred” but simple misguided intentions. TRAs often try to support sexist stereotypes that “gender critical” feminists call out for being another tool of oppression and patriarchy.