all 12 comments

[–]bbbarbican 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Most women want to be mothers and they are prepared to go to great lengths to accomplish that goal, even to the detriment of their physical and mental health. A friend of mine wants a kid even though she is not fit for it physically (and maybe even mentally), she will be put on some artificial hormones to get her periods to come back. I think that's mad and that she has a rosy view of motherhood and is bound to be disappointed but nothing I could say would ever change her mind. So I don't say anything. One of my colleagues had a kids a few years ago, he's severely disabled. Now she's trying to have another, injecting herself three times a day with hormones. It's obvious she wants a 'replacement' kid because the first one is disabled. She's had two miscarriages already. I think that when your body can't get pregnant then that's a sign that maybe you should accept you won't have another child. The rest of the office tells her that she 'deserves' another kid and that she will be a great mother and I just cringe internally but again, what can I say? She doesn't need or care for my opinion. So I keep my mouth shut.

Statistics that show that women still do most of the raising, cleaning and taking care of kids are freely available. Yet women still want kids and delude themselves that the father will 'help' He won't and they will be exhausted and resentful but on the other hand, they would be miserable without kids.

All this to say that I don't care about motherhood ultimately. Women freely choose to be mothers and nothing I say or do would change that. I know perfectly well that my antinatalist views are in the minority. I'm not interested in fighting for women who have no issue with motherhood and who simply would like their men to be a bit more helpful and that's it. In fact I'm not interested in fighting for women at all. It's pointless. I enjoy reading the based opinions on here because they are interesting and make me think and I agree with a lot of them.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I understand. Thank you for the candid response.

In fact I'm not interested in fighting for women at all. It's pointless.


[–]pizza- 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

If we can acknowledge the biological nature of men then surely it should be obvious most women want to have kids and take care of them, we are still animals. They feel more fulfilled raising a child than working some meaningless job to make someone else rich. We are just biological outliers and it makes no sense to expect other women to live/feel the way we see as correct, or try to change it. Things are the way they are because most women are happy with their role in society, though I would guess they were happier when "sexual liberation"/porn/prostitution were not openly accepted, and society at least pretended to value motherhood. Most of them like your typical toxic masculinity males and taking care of the family and home. Men having a bigger part in childcare isn't a good idea either, if you believe they are all rapists and pedophiles, which is the popular view on blackpill. And artificial wombs would just be used to create perfect slaves for the system, though the idea isn't very realistic in general, pregnancy is a complicated process that would likely be impossible to recreate in such a fashion, all these futuristic tech ideas are unrealistic, it's nothing but hype with zero results. The only result it would have is women would lose the role of "mother/wife" and be relegated to whore only. There is no escaping biology. And as you say, women enjoy this slavery of motherhood, it fulfills their biological imperative. Most people aren't going to be super successful, rich, creative or innovative, even if you try and take away those biological chains, they won't be free to do those things and accomplish something great, they would just end up unfulfilled and unhappy.

A prominent feminist said that stay at home mothers are prisoners in comfortable concentration camps.

you mention repeatedly how much women love this slavery, and have evolved to love it so... what is the problem? The reasonable solution would be to make sure they are able to also make money/save while in marriage so they can leave if they want to. They want to have kids, husbands and take care of the family. If you remove people's biological drives, there is nothing left, no reason to do anything, maybe just be a hedonist. Just a few outliers that could now accomplish something great without the constraints and that's it. I liked blackpill because it's doomer mindset that shows how mainstream feminism just hurts women, and enjoy reading theories on why humans are what they are, I'm not really interested in forcing the normie straights into a life they would hate, nor do i think my view of what is right, is right for them. I didn't see blackpill feminism as focused on any change/activism, because you can't change human nature, we are doomed. Or maybe that wasn't it, idk.

There is no escape, our problems are the result of nature, people only manage to live by deluding themselves or believing in god, because facing the hell that nature really is would make them all just kill themselves. Consciousness was a mistake, the only way to end suffering would be extinction. If not that, then find a way to work with our biology that causes the least suffering.

[–]kt0998 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I share your view of what BlackPill means. It's ultimately anti-activism, just accepting reality as it is rather than trying to force it into some ideological fantasy.

I agree with you. Most women are happy and fulfilled with kids, let them have them. Feminist who criticize motherhood either end up abandoning their position and becoming mothers (vast majority) or they are like us, the small minority of exceptions who never desire that life. Same things with marriage and submitting to men. Like you said, most women find happiness there and feel miserable without these things. Yes, they are often miserable in relationship and with kids as well, when the unpleasant reality clashes with their unrealistic expectations. But that's basically life for everyone, nobody can be perfectly happy or free. And like you said, most people don't have the option to be rich and travel around and live exciting life anyway. Family at least gives security and stability. I personally have never wanted a family but I envy that security and I'm sure I'll be lonely and unhappy when I'm old. But for me there isn't any option because my personality is extremely unfit to be a mother.

People tend to project their own views onto others. I think BPF women do this a lot, because we can't imagine why any woman would want to live like that. Why would any woman want to be submissive to a man? How could any woman accept the horrible deal that straight relationships and families inevitably are? But you need to remember that other women aren't like you and don't think or feel like you. And men can't be taught to be nurturing and empathic against their nature, and they will never clean and change diapers as much as women do, that will just never happen, so women have to accept the gendered work distribution or not have kids at all.

I think it would be better if society could just be honest about this all. Girls need to be taught about the world realistically from young age, not fed feminist fairytales about how they can "have it all" which are basically the new version of stories about princesses. They need to understand that life is full of choices and no, you can't have a high profile career and be the ideal mother, successful women dump their kids to nannies and maids to be raised for a reason. You can't enjoy the ego-boost of posting sexy photos online and complain about being treated as sex object. You can't expect men to pay and support you financially and be treated as independent equal member of society. It's time for women to grow up and start to understand choices and their consequences and above all, take responsibility.

[–]pizza- 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, feminism sold women a lie and now a lot of the women that are getting closer to 30 are regretting their choices, realizing you can't have it all. I'm seeing a lot more women become depressed or anxious because they are afraid they missed their chance to have a family and kids. They also say men can be socialized to be different and take part in all the childcare etc, that definitely makes them less satisfied in life than if they knew what they were getting into. When the gender roles are clearly defined everyone knows what to expect and there is less conflict and disappointment. They are also unrealistic about what relationships and "love" is supposed to be, expecting to constantly spend time with their partner, when that has never been the norm in our history. Each did their own thing and only got together for survival (in the lower classes) only seeing each other for short amounts of time daily. Now if they are not feeling excitement at all times they think it's not working, and keep going from one toxic guy to the next, and end up traumatized. They should be taught better about choosing the right guy, and to be more logical about it. Instead feminism says, you go girl, do what you want, you can do anything, you can do porn and be a lawyer and have kids! With zero guidance, throwing them to the wolves.

Now all these women that supported sexualizing themselves online, porn, onlyfans etc are older and stuck with partners that watch all that, and they can't even say anything, because they feel like they can't set those boundaries. It's ridiculous seeing the same women on tiktok post about being pro porn and onlyfans, post sexy videos and then complain about men's comments on these videos and objectification.They don't want to accept that any of this has consequences, and you have to make a choice in life. They are taught the fantasy that none of these things matter and they shouldn't be judged for it. Now women still have conservative relationship dynamics like before, all household responsibilities on the woman, must also have a job and the man can indulge in porn and prostitution, such a win for women. I don't think the majority of women really wanted this feminist liberation anyway. "Spinsters" were always a minority. Now the feminist are trying to change how men think instead of teaching women about reality, and a shit ton of feminism seems to just focus on trying to convince men all women are equally hot and fuckable, and should have equal access to the hot rich guys but that's another topic.

I'm unfit for that sort of life too and don't want it for myself, but I still think a good relationship is what would make most normal women the happiest. That's pretty much all humans do all their life, seek relationships with others. All of human life revolves around that, even the majority of women on pinkpill still intended to find partners, and plenty of those that claim they want a radfem commune will end up in relationships too. I'm not sure what I am going to do with myself, and I sometimes wish I could be like those normal women, it seems like an easier path and you have something to do with your life that you think matters (raising the next generation).

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you mention repeatedly how much women love this slavery, and have evolved to love it so... what is the problem?

The problem is that just because women love it, doesn't mean it's good for us. Many women love bdsm but it isn't good for the submissive women. A comfortable concentration camp is still a concentration camp. And women surviving patriarchy by seeking mental comfort is exactly what makes patriarchy thrive.

And artificial wombs would just be used to create perfect slaves for the system, though the idea isn't very realistic in general, pregnancy is a complicated process that would likely be impossible to recreate in such a fashion, all these futuristic tech ideas are unrealistic, it's nothing but hype with zero results. The only result it would have is women would lose the role of "mother/wife" and be relegated to whore only.

This is a valid fear when it comes to artificial wombs and something shared by many radfems as well. But at present, women are forced into sexual and domestic(pregnancy, childbirth, childrearing etc) slavery. If artificial wombs become a reality, domestic slavery will be reduced. And thats certainly better than slaving on two fronts.

And regarding seeing women as whores, men get away with their sex drives mostly because the act has consequence only for women. If the biological burden of pregnancy and childbirth is taken away from women, the responsibility of childrearing will be more evenly distributed. Also, men will have to take responsibility for the birth of his kids since childbirth, with the aid of technology, will not be an affair that involves the mother only. And when reproductive labour becomes equitable, men wont be having the audacity to see women as whores that they can fuck and get away with since the consequences of the act are now equitable.

Regarding artificial wombs being idealistic, actually the neo natal incubators we have is more closer to artificial wombs than we might realise. We have the technology to take care of an infant born premature. And recently, scientists have developed a biobag which kept alive a lamb for four months since conception. Sure human trials are still a far fetched dream, but artificial wombs are now not merely a sci fi fantasy.

And I dont believe all men are rapists/pedophiles. Just like there are women like us who can think against the grain, there sure ought to be men. And once more men and women realise the reality of human biology and if technology can provide a decent alternative for the repressive female biology, I believe the general human outlook will change.

If not that, then find a way to work with our biology that causes the least suffering.

I know blackpill does not believe in change. I agree wholeheartedly that human biology is limiting and as such, change is only a dream. But I still believe change, nonetheless is possible, with exposure to truth and technology.

Had slavery not been abolished, the blacks would still be suffering tremendously now. Had blacks thought only about easing the conditions of their slavery, they would never have known freedom. Same with women. As long as we continue to make it easier for women to suffer, we are actually strengthening the core system that necessitates such interventions. Its like airing out smoke from a burning house while pretending the house isn't on fire, as a brilliant feminist pointed out to me.

You pointed out about consciousness. The human consciousness and conscience is seen as a mistake because it doesn't serve much evolutionary roles. But still, we evolved it and we might use it for good. For liberation of women from oppressive biology that only lets them survive by being docile to men and which in turn, makes them enjoy it.

[–]fuckthisfuckthat 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t think most mothers DO enjoy motherhood. I think when they say they do, it’s a cope. I think they try to convince themselves (and others) that everything about it is great, when behind the scenes more and more mothers are on anti-anxiety and depression meds, substance abuse is rife and the ‘empty-nest’ syndrome is not them missing their children, it’s them having an identity crisis wondering if they’ve wasted their life.

[–]bbbarbican 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh of course it's a cope. But what else to do but to delude themselves? If they admitted the truth, they'd have to jump out a window. So what do they do instead? Feel smug and superior to childfree women whom they look down on. That's all mothers have: status over childfree women. But this status is their raison d'être

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Only in west

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Don't be a mother then pinkpilled faggot

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Bugger off, boomer.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ok, sorry