Gravel_Roads

I feel like you're responding to what you've "heard TRA's say" instead of responding to what I have said. I'm not saying you can't argue with trans people if they say something stupid. You're not saying anything crazy, and there's nothing wrong with you having differing opinions about this. But every time you say "I've noticed the TRA's do _" or "All you trans people think _", it starts to feel like you're talking to someone behind me or something. Please try to remember there is no "Trans People Bible". I've met like... 2 other trans people in my life, and we didn't compare "ideological notes" to make sure we all have the same message.

(In the same way, I also assume that even though I've seen some GC people say crazy things, I don't assume you hold their worst opinions, y'know?)

The issue is that amputating body parts that are perceived as shameful or wrong etc. in a society constantly sending women these messages shouldn't be the solution, even if it seems "simple".

This is... a good example of what I'm talking about? I didn't have my breasts removed because it's socially "perceived as shameful or wrong" to have them. I'm not ashamed of having had them, and I certainly didn't remove them to "send a message to other women". For me, it is bizarre that a complete stranger would see me doing something with my own body and come away thinking "They had surgery to send a message to ME!" I didn't get surgery because I think "all women should remove their breasts and hate their bodies". I was thinking "it'd be great if these things weren't in the way anymore." And now that they aren't, I don't really think about them at all. There is no greater opinion about women at all. (If anything, I love breasts on women lol. I'm bi and have mostly dated women. Breasts are great. I just didn't personally want them).

This seems like another trend in the trans (rights) community: pretending that all those women are sooo impossible to understand and that surely said misunderstanding must be validation of one's non-womanness.

once again... noo? I didn't say "women are IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND" I said "I assume women are a diverse population who probably each have a unique relationship with their own bodies". As in "different women have different experiences". If it helps, I think men also differ in their experiences from person to person. I don't see what validation has to do with any of this, I don't think anything about me sets me apart from anyone else in this regard.

I have lost count of the women who say they don't need feminism or the women who are not like other girls, and despite their indignation, I have not once been convinced by people shoving their heads in the sand regarding their physical reality because they don't want to hear it.

Once again... none of this is in response to anything I've said, tho. I think the world very much needs feminism, and more personally my life would be a lot worse without it. So. Again. I'm fine with you wanting to argue with people who say such things, but you'll have an easier time actually taking it up with the people who actually say it. If the "physical reality" you're talking about is regarding me being female, I already know lol.

The simple reality is that these were the cards we have been dealt. The fact that women deal differently with the realities of being female, and that surgeries and drugs exist, doesn't actually change the fact that they are female.

Sure, I never said it didn't. I understand that you don't personally like that some females take drugs or have surgery to alter their bodies. But some determined females will do it all the same, and some of those who do don't regret it. Some will go on to successfully live as men in society. Whether adungitit or Gravel_Roads have opinions about it, positive or negative, is going to be irrelevant, since neither of us will likely ever interact with them or impact their lives.

Remember, no-one cared how you felt about being female, nor did they care how I felt about it, nor that woman, nor that one.

What's great is, I don't have to care whether they care :D! I'm not waiting for anyone to "care about how I feel about being female". That's for me to care about. And even if no one else cares in the entire world, I'm still going to care about myself, because I'm ultimately the one I have to face in the mirror every day.

You didn't get VIP access to a character creator any more than any of us did.

I can't change the fact that I am a genetic female, XX chromosomes. Luckily I don't have to interact with my literal chromosomes every day, so it doesn't affect my dysphoria. What I did have to deal with every day was the discomfort of having breasts. But I very obviously do have the ability to remove my breasts, so i did. So while I don't have a "VIP access to a character creator", I was able to go from being a "female with breasts" to a "female without breasts". So, factually speaking, I can change some things. And, for me, they were the most disruptive ones.

I'm not trying to be cruel here, but trans people have to understand that their wishes don't actually change reality and that self hatred or cosmetic surgeries aren't something unique to them.

I don't think you're being cruel. I just feel like you're projecting what you think about trans people onto me, instead of listening to what I'm saying. I'm not functioning on "wishes". I didn't "wish" to not have breasts, I just didn't want them so I had them removed. I don't "wish" to be a man, I've just been on T long enough that people treat me like one because I look like one. I've never once claimed anything about me was unique. People get cosmetic surgery all the time. Sometimes, it looks good enough that people assume it's natural. This applies to men and women equally, nothing special about me or trans people in general.

I honestly don't intend to debate whether or not you're happy. I have met people who were made happy by all sorts of things. Hell, cults and drugs have such power over people precisely because they make them happy and provide a simple alternative to a shitty reality.

I didn't transition to escape reality. I work with homeless populations, I see a lot of reality. I deal with overdoses, I break up fights, I've performed CPR on people who later died. I've seen some darkness, and I've seen some amazing, crusty beauty. My sex/gender doesn't really play a huge part in any of this, since no one gives a shit about gender when someone's bleeding from a stab wound.

I wouldn't personally compare what I do/have done with "being in a cult" or "struggling with addiction". But it's not like there's any laws saying you can't. I just disagree. It probably comes down to what you consider pro-social. If being transgender is, to you, inherently anti-social, there's not much else I can do but accept.

The simple fact is, I don't want an "easy fix" in the form of amputations, surgeries and a lifetime of an artificially induced hormonal imbalance

I mean... you're allowed to not want me to have removed my breasts, but your preferences for my body are going to obviously take second to my preferences about my own body.

My issue isn't really with how happy you as one single individual are, my concern is with how the views I keep seeing trans people/supporters espouse keep feeding into this idea that women have an easy fix to misogyny through surgeries, medication or just plain ol' pretending and denial.

Once again, I'm fine if you want to criticize people who think transition is an easy fix to escape misogyny. I don't think transition does much to escape misogyny, any more than someone in the closet is "escaping" homophobia. Anti-woman sentiment is harmful even when it's not aimed at an individual.

But the fact that you can feel shame over your female body and euphoria over superficial modifications to your female biology is an experience only a woman can have.

Disliking being born female is, indeed, something a person would have to be born female to experience. I don't consider being female shameful, though. Women are awesome. My mom was an old bra-burning hippy who loved the female body; her art was almost entirely centered around the female figure, and I still love her art to this day.

However, if by "euphoria over superficial modifications" you mean "are happy wit how the surgery turned out", I don't think that's a woman-only experience. Most people are pretty happy when they have successful surgery that accomplishes its goal.

at the end of the day, none of us were asked about how we feel any more than you were.

I never claimed otherwise. What does people "asking me" about it have to do with anything? I'm not waiting for anyone to ask me anything. Even if no one ever "asks me", they aren't obligated to. I am a creature of agency and I am responsible for solving my own problems. You said something earlier with....

No-one ever asked me if I wanted these things, no-one ever cared how I felt about them, no one cares if I cry over them or jump from joy.

And my answer is still the same: Whether or not someone "cares" if I "cry over it" is irrelevant. I don't live my life based on what other people are doing, or asking, or caring about. I base my life off what I want to do with my life and my body.