Spotify to Take Down Neil Young’s Music After His Joe Rogan Ultimatum

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[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Your sources on this aren't trustworthy, nor is ivermectin necessary or proven useful

We aren't talking about that second part at all, it is irrelevant if it works. Peace of mind is more than adequate reason to prescribe a harmless placebo. The question is if Ivermectin is safe. CNN likes to say it's dangerous in high doses, that's misleading..

It's been used since the 80s, has an excellent safety profile. I've taken it before, Gizmo has taken it for mites. In fact, it was one of only drugs we could use on a 9 week old kitten without killing him. It didn't work but it didn't nearly kill him like Frontline.

It's such a well tolerated medicine, you don't need to actually test for the condition you're treating. You just give Ivermectin and see if it helps. That's how it was before things got political.

Show me some pubmed data that ivermectin is more dangerous than Tylenol or cold medicine or any other number of meds nobody would think twice about administering on the chance they might help.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I suppose we could discuss ivermectin until the cows come home, but it's not important. At issue is misinformation about vaccines, thanks to which Young and 100s of doctors are letting Spotify know that the misinformation is dangerous, that it's part of a campaign to get people not to take vaccines. (The focus on ivermectin is also a campain to get people not to take vaccines.) The problem is that those who are not taking the vaccines are helping to spread COVID, which can therefore spread to people with other health problems who could suffer more serious life-long problems and could die. It's dangerous to spread misinformation.

Rogan knows what he's doing. He also knows that it's the reason he's getting $100+ million to spread that misinformation. Meanwhile, he's helping spread COVID, which is harming people, and in some cases, severely harming and killing people. Those on Saidit who support this also tend to agree with other right-wing misinformation campaigns, which support increasing extreme income inequality, making the 1% richer, while ruining the lives of the 99%. Saiditors need to see the big picture, rather than help the 1% push their propaganda and screw over the 99%.

If Saiditors vote for Republicans in the mid-term elections, this will certify the destruction of the 99% for 2 more years thereafter. We were already facing this under Trump. Look at who benefitted during that period and at who got much poorer. And now, with Manchin, Sinema, and ALL of the GOP, there are continued obstructions of democratic processes that would have pulled the US out of the econoic disasters developed by the GOP under Trump. The majority of Saiditors need to see what the 1% is doing to them, and how they are agreing with misinformation and disinformation that is destroying the lives of the 99%.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I suppose we could discuss ivermectin until the cows come home, but it's not important

I disagree, it goes to show there is deliberate scientific misinformation being spread for political and probably financial reasons. The same thing you have claimed of your ideological opponents, I don't think you realize that it turns out "he who smelt it, dealt it."

The problem is that those who are not taking the vaccines are helping to spread COVID,

We know the vaccine does not stop spread, that's old news, where ya been?

could suffer more serious life-long problems and could die

The incidence of long covid is similar to long term effects from flus and colds.

You realize less than 1% of covid cases require hospitalization? Bill Maher claimed a poll said your average democrat thought it was around 50%.

If Saiditors vote for Republicans in the mid-term elections

I don't think Saidit has enough political capital to influence an election just yet. A red swing is all but assured, nothing we can do to stop that. There'd have to be some big watershed event that changed everyone's minds. Like a war. Biden could try wagging the dog.

The majority of Saiditors need to see what the 1% is doing to them

That's both sides. We are not ruled by commoners, not a single poor person in Congress.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I disagree, it goes to show there is deliberate scientific misinformation being spread for political and probably financial reasons.

If we divert the conversation about methods of treatment with ivermectin, then we divert the attention away from vaccines for COVID, which require more attention, in order to reduce the spread of COVID. Who would want to divert discussion and help spread COVID? (The 1%.)

We know the vaccine does not stop spread, that's old news, where ya been?

This is about the 'transmission' of COVID, not about the 'spread' of COVID. The whole point of helping people build antibodies against COVID is so that they suffer less from COVID when they get it, and thus spread it less. Yes, transmission is still possible, but COVID is less likely to spread among those with more antibodies (even if it's transmitted to them)

The incidence of long covid is similar to long term effects from flus and colds.

No - because of long-term bronchial, neurological, and fatigue problems that you'd not get with a flu or cold

You realize less than 1% of covid cases require hospitalization? Bill Maher claimed a poll said your average democrat thought it was around 50%.

That's another way to mislead people. Omicron rarely requires hospitalization. The main problem is the spread of COVID to those who have other health problems, hospitalized or not.

I don't think Saidit has enough political capital to influence an election just yet.

That's not my point (as you may know). Websites that help spread misleading information are indeed influencing many others.

That's both sides. We are not ruled by commoners, not a single poor person in Congress.

Both sides are not equal in this case. ALL members of the GOP are fucking over the 99%, whereas only a few Dems are doing this.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

then we divert the attention away from vaccines for COVID

A virtuous lie, huh? The problem is the vaccines don't work very well.

This is about the 'transmission' of COVID, not about the 'spread' of COVID

You're playing word games now. You know you're on shaky territory when you're reduced to playing word games.

No - because of long-term bronchial, neurological, and fatigue problems that you'd not get with a flu or cold

You can totally get those with colds and flus too. Scary as shit. It's just rare. Just like with covid. I know I've linked to an article on it previously with you

whereas only a few Dems are doing this.

Democrats pandered too much to the alt left for a lot of their mainstream base, and their policies haven't been working great. Like democrats want less black people incarcerated in theory, but generally didn't realize there wasn't a systemic racism behind it to fix -- like they were told -- it instead meant ignoring crimes. And this is okay for the wealthy left who don't have to live with those realities, but they alienate their base. As an example.

People are leaving blue states in record numbers for a reason.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

The problem is the vaccines don't work very well.

The problem is that the right-wing propagandists want you to say this. Look at the history of virology, and the periodic decline of COVID cases when vaccines help reduce the spread of COVID. (Vaccines also have to be updated for new strains.)

You're playing word games now. You know you're on shaky territory when you're reduced to playing word games.

It's a word game to conflate 'transmission' with the 'spread' of a virus, because vaccines help build antibodies; they would never stop transmission, as that's not what they've ever been for. They are for helping to build antibodies so that people suffer less and thus do not spread the virus as much as they would have if unvaccinated. (This shouldn't require an explanation. It's as if people want to believe the misinformation rather than think about the misinformation and how it conflates language in order to keep people from understanding what vaccines do. Think also about the politicization of medicine in this context. Why is the right-wing politicizing medicine? They can only get votes from people who aren't thinking.)

You can totally get those with colds and flus too.

No - consquences of COVID are potentially much more serious. This is well-known.

Democrats ...

Another way to draw attention away from ALL of the GOP, which are fucking over the 99% (with the help of a few traitor Dems)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

if they really worked and didn't cause myocarditis there'd be no need for a mandate, people would be knocking down the doors of pharmacies trying to get the shot

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don't cause myocarditis in 4 billion of the patients, and they do work, and there are many around the world who've tried to get shots. Pharmacies normally don't have the shots in most countries.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Look at the history of virology, and the periodic decline of COVID cases when vaccines help reduce the spread of COVID. (Vaccines also have to be updated for new strains.)

Look at what happens with the flu shot. They always get the strain wrong, by the time a vaccine can be distributed it is already out of date. It might help reduce severity of infection anyways. And that's great for people at risk. Vaccine mandates and mass vaccination don't seem indicated.

It's a word game to conflate 'transmission' with the 'spread' of a virus, because vaccines help build antibodies; they would never stop transmission, as that's not what they've ever been for. The

That goal post keeps moving. Very Bill Clinton-esque, definition of sex kinda thing. Again, not something you have to do with a solid argument. I know that's not a high PoD argument, but it's true.

that's not what they've ever been for.

So many revisions. Was I supposed to get polio or measles? Those shots were to stop that.

The CDC says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of Covid. It's very straightforward.

Why is the right-wing politicizing medicine?

The right at least has the virtue of being on the correct side this time, but you're right, damn both parties for making sport of this.

Another way to draw attention away from ALL of the GOP, which are fucking over the 99% (with the help of a few traitor Dems)

They aren't heroes, they're politicians.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Look at what happens with the flu shot...

mRNA treatmenst for SARs viruses are being developed and updated regularly, to deal with new strains, and the lockdowns help reduce the spread of the virus. If anti-maskers would stop listening to the propaganda, the virus would not spread as much, because more people would be vaccinated.

That goal post keeps moving.

Methods for achieving the goal changes when new research helps direct those methods.

So many revisions. Was I supposed to get polio or measles? Those shots were to stop that.

Because you're vaccinated against polio and measles, you have sufficient antibodies to deal with the when you are infected. All other vaccinated people in the US also have sufficient antibodies, so it is quite rare.

The CDC says the vaccine doesn't prevent the spread of Covid. It's very straightforward.

True - you can be infected with all viruses. The vaccines do not prevent infection. Vaccines reduce the spread of viruses by helping increase one's antibodies.

The right at least has the virtue of being on the correct side this time.

We do of course disagree on a few matters, but one thing we absolutely disagree on is this comment. The GOP are fleecing the 99% by pushing misinformation and disinformation that gives people the false impression that medical science cannot be trusted. It's insane, and shows how much the GOP are manipulating the gullible people they are in the process of robbing.

They aren't heroes, they're politicians.

No one is discussing heros. A democracy elects public servants who have one job: do what their constituents hae elected them to do (not line their pockets with corporate and rich person handouts, as well as insider trading).

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Rand Paul says Omicron is nature's vaccine. It sounds like the risk of a bad batch is much less with this nature vaccine.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ALL members of the GOP are fucking over the 99%, whereas only a few Dems are doing this.

Preposterous

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

covid spreads at same rate if vaccinated or not, cdc admits this. Your supposed to use the argument that hospitals are overflowing and the vaccine helps lower the amount of people needing to go to the hospital.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

covid spreads at same rate if vaccinated or not, cdc admits this.

No - it does not - per every report on COVID (those with more antibodies are less likely to spread COVID, because they suffer less from it)

Your supposed to use the argument that hospitals are overflowing

They are focused on COVID treatments for numerous patients, many of which are unvaccinated, and are not scheduling much needed surgeries

and the vaccine helps lower the amount of people needing to go to the hospital.

Correct

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

yes it does sorry

you should focus on the hospital part of it, tho they were all too full before covid too. Wait times in ERs were always too long.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The main focus for everyone should be the 'health' problems (not hospitalization) globally because of COVID. There are also serious economic problems.

[–]thoughtcriminal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

misinformation is dangerous

In what way? Quantify it. How many people have died because of Joe Rogan's podcast? 0? 1? 100? 1000?

The focus on ivermectin is also a campain to get people not to take vaccines.

The focus against ivermectin in a campaign to get people to take the vax and ignore other treatments. Ivermectin is a generic drug anyone can produce, it costs $0.01 per dose. Meanwhile Pfizer has made $35 billion on their proprietary vax, which they also refuse to distribute in poor countries that can't afford to pay for it (fuck those 99% though as long as they don't use horse paste amirite?). Every major news network telling you about this "dangerous misinformation" is sponsored by Pfizer. Follow the money.

Japan has started using ivermectin as early treatment with good results. But I guess the entire health ministry of Japan fell for dangerous misinformation too...

those who are not taking the vaccines are helping to spread COVID

The only correlation between vaccine uptake and spread is a small positive correlation in highly vaccinated populations. Anecdotally the reduce the spread, but there isn't good evidence to support this claim. Gibraltar has nearly a 100% vax rate and they had to cancel this last Christmas due to their high cases. Israel is in a similar spot.

Also who cares? The vaccines work right? So just get vaccinated yourself and you don't have to worry about interacting with the dirty and unpure anti-vax. You will be protected.

Rogan knows what he's doing.

Yes he does. He's having a candid and uncensored 3 hour conversation with his guests. And the West has fallen so far that we can't even bear that level of discussion or speech anymore without begging institutions to censor us.

he's helping spread COVID

Citation needed. You have no evidence of this.

Trump

It's 2022 my dude

And now, with Manchin, Sinema, and ALL of the GOP, there are continued obstructions of democratic processes

It's wild that you think that democratically elected representatives of states voting based on their beliefs and the beliefs of their constituents is an "obstruction of democratic processes." Especially when one of the bills attempting to pass would federalize elections, which is unconstitutional.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

One of the general threads of these arguments is that all of my points are wrong and baseless. So let's pick one: Rogan. The way in which misinformation spreads does not depend on the single source, or indeed one source within that spread of misinformaiton. The spread of disinformation is due to a network of activities, within which Rogan's influence is significant. See here examples of the ways in which misinformaiton and disinformation spreads:

https://digiday.com/media/fake-news-charts/

https://www.statista.com/chart/18540/responsibility-for-spreading-disinformation/

https://knowablemagazine.org/article/society/2021/how-online-misinformation-spreads

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/fake-news-problem-one-chart/

https://mediawell.ssrc.org/literature-reviews/how-misinformation-spreads/versions/1-0/

See also misinformation websites at /s/shitpostnews

[–]thoughtcriminal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never argued that misinformation doesn't exist or spread. I argued that what you're classifying as misinformation is wrong, and that you can't quantify any of the alleged negative effects of it despite qualifying it as dangerous.

The spread of disinformation is due to a network of activities

That network of activities is called the free exchange of ideas and it is by far the most powerful tool for open discourse and truth discovery. We are both able to discuss these "dangerous" issues like adults without either of us dying of covid or requiring an authority figure to "correct" classes of speech they deem misinformed as if they are the gatekeepers of truth. These same gatekeepers have been consistently factually wrong.

"Dangerous misinformation" has existed for as long as discourse has. It has existed in the town square, in the newspapers, on mainstream media. It has existed since the internet became popular. It existed 15 years ago when free speech was culturally supported and championed by the left.

It has never been a problem before. It only is now because authoritarians see an opportunity to crack down on free speech under the guise of protecting people from themselves. There are seemingly plenty of people who would happily give up their innate freedoms for the promise of a safety that can't even be quantified.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I provided the links because those offer quantified information. If you want me to gather a team to quantify the impact of Rogan's comments across social media, I'll have to get a major grant and report back in a few weeks. But this isn't necessary. You can hopefully identify misinformation and its consequences. It's above my paygrade to explain it.