you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thanks for a debate point, which I rarely get on DAR, if ever.

It's astonishing, for example, how you identify Putin's liberal democratic regime as "authoritarian fascist"

It is impossible to show that Putin is part of a "liberal democratic" government. There is absolutely nothing liberal about it, nor is there a proper democracy. You are correct that he heads a 'regime' which is the term for an authoritarian government. He heads a fascist regime, as defined by everyone (notwithstanding DAR users, perhaps). This is the first I've seen the phrase "liberal democratic regime" for anything (as it's a contradiction in terms). An the term does not apply ot Putin (who would also admit that his regime is absolutely not liberal). He wants us to think it's democratic, but when you remove all opposition before an election, you don't have a democracy. What some fascists think of Putin is beside the point (not all fascists think alike; in fact there is a wide variety of them around the globe). What Putin is doing is literally fascist, by all definitions of the term.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

It is impossible to show that Putin is part of a "liberal democratic" government.

His state is a multi-party parliamentary democracy with regular elections and liberal instutions such as a constitution, separation of powers etc. etc. It is, without a doubt, a liberal democracy.

You are correct that he heads a 'regime' which is the term for an authoritarian government.

I also use the term "American regime". Although, yes, I suppose that in the end it is an authoritarian regime too, as are all other liberal governments.

He heads a fascist regime, as defined by everyone (notwithstanding DAR users, perhaps).

So apparently, fascism is when you kill fascists, imprison fascists and are disliked by fascists. Naturally, liberals are more correct when they say that anything they don't like, from Hitler to Pinochet to cheeto burito man, is what fascism really is.

This is the first I've seen the phrase "liberal democratic regime" for anything (as it's a contradiction in terms).

It is not at all, you are projecting your preconceived notions about specifics words and phrases onto the world at large, hence your confusion.

An the term does not apply ot Putin (who would also admit that his regime is absolutely not liberal).

That's because he's ignorant or a liar. Zinoviev already called this out long ago.

He wants us to think it's democratic, but when you remove all opposition before an election, you don't have a democracy.

All Western governments do this too so apparently you are wrong.

What some fascists think of Putin is beside the point (not all fascists think alike; in fact there is a wide variety of them around the globe).

Perhaps you should ask Russian fascists what they think of him.

What Putin is doing is literally fascist, by all definitions of the term.

No, it isn't at all, and you are a complete clown for thinking otherwise. Military action is not exclusive to fascism and does not make a regime fascist, otherwise every single state in the world would be "fascist", starting from the dawn of time.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks again for the debate points. Perhaps I shouldn't continue this, but for what it's worth:

His state is a multi-party parliamentary democracy with regular elections and liberal instutions such as a constitution, separation of powers etc. etc. It is, without a doubt, a liberal democracy.

As I noted - Putin wants us to think there is a democracy, by virtue of the government structure, but it is absolutely not a functioning democreacy. The opposition is reduced or removed before the elections. Putin obviously controls the government, in what is effectively a dictatorship. It's not a functioning democracy, but instead a fascist dictatorship, which what might appear to eb a democratic structure.

I also use the term "American regime".

The US has a democratically elected government, wherein no single person has dictatorial control. Thus it's not a regime. It is however a kind of oligarchy, with a few people controling the rest. And this should stop.

So apparently, fascism is when you kill fascists,...

Putin says that's his interest, but it's obviously a bad excuse to 'liberate' Ukrain from fascists, which is not what control the country. There is much more to it than that. He's been upset that the pro-Russian politicians were overthrown in 2014, and has worried that Ukraine would join NATO. Crimea, Georgia, Belarus, and now Ukraine have been his targets for a long time, to bring back as much of the USSR as possible.

It is not at all

Yes it is

All Western governments do this too so apparently you are wrong.

Not if they're functioning democracies.

Perhaps you should ask Russian fascists what they think of him.

They'll have different points of view. They'll also be happy to know Putin is trying to remove two Jewish leaders from Ukraine.

No, it isn't at all, and you are a complete clown for thinking otherwise.

He's a textbook fascist/authoritarian. It's really simple. Even clowns understand this.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

it is absolutely not a functioning democreacy

No such thing.

but instead a fascist dictatorship

It is not, you don't know what fascism is, as has already been established.

which what might appear to eb a democratic structure.

Because it literally is.

Putin says that's his interest, but it's obviously a bad excuse to 'liberate' Ukrain from fascists, which is not what control the country.

I am referring to Russian fascists, whom he has been brutalising for a long time.

Not if they're functioning democracies.

Apparently, you also agree that there is no such thing as a functioning democracy.

They'll have different points of view.

They won't.

He's a textbook fascist/authoritarian. It's really simple. Even clowns understand this.

I agree with what you said earlier that this discussion isn't worth perpetuating, because you're obviously wrong and too irrational to see it. Apparently the US is fascist, as is Britain, as is France, as is the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China, so on and so forth. Enjoy your stubborn ignorance, I have already said all that could be said.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The main problem is that you mention false definitions of commonly known terms. We're arguing over facts, which is really dumb. To say that Putin is not running an authoritarian regime is completely bonkers, by any standard. One need only turn to grade school civics or statecraft. Rather than read my comments, have a look at the usual sources:

Search: russia authoritarian

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/03/13/russia-has-two-political-systems-normal-chaos-and-putins-override/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_under_Vladimir_Putin

Or this PDF on Alexander A. Galkin “Authoritarianism in Russia

https://www.jstor.org/stable/48609681

https://www.journalofdemocracy.org/articles/how-the-putin-regime-really-works/

https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/view/document/obo-9780199756223/obo-9780199756223-0205.xml

https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780190093488.001.0001/oso-9780190093488

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I should state from the start that I am not reading liberal propaganda, nor am I interested in what liberals think, because they are wrong about everything.

With that said, I can agree that Putin is "authoritarian". That does not make him a fascist at all, however - he is, as I said, a liberal democrat. Authoritarian liberalism is not at all rare. Ataturk is a classic example - he was an authoritarian who utterly destroyed Ottoman society, institutions and social organisation in order to create a liberal democratic Turkish republic. This is what Putin is doing as well. He hates radicals. For pity's sake, he's waging a "denazification" war in Ukraine - how could you possibly believe him to be a Nazi or a fascist? The sheer level of cognitive dissonance required is unimaginable.