God of the Old Testament...

submitted by Vulptex from (self.conspiracy)

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[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

You ask if he is judging himself, but you have completely missed what is going on in this psalm. It is even literally listed for you. "elohim stands in the congregation of el (the pantheon!)"

Yes, this fits perfectly in line with the reference to rulers being the ones with heavenly authority, as mentioned. The interesting thing about this is that this comes up a lot in the anti bible circles. Claiming things like "god said there was more than one god", but again, it refers to those in authority that are supposed to be acting on gods will. Either heavenly beings, or worldly leaders. In this case it is in reference to worldly leaders as heavenly hosts do not die. If you still have issue with this, it comes down then to your in ability to accept that words have multiple uses and are contextual. Also, nit picking.

nit picking: As a non native hebrew speaker, I would accept this summary:

Elohim is found 2,606 times in the King James Version. It is almost always translated as God or god(s) or some other divine being(s). There are 5 times the word is rendered as judge(s); 2 times as great; 2 times as mighty and once as exceedingly.

However to address your hebrew concern, I went further and broke up the direct ancient hebrew.

Base reference:

http://qbible.com/hebrew-old-testament/psalms/82.html

For the first verse the god judging god is the same word and context. God judging god. Either this is the golden sample you can use to destroy the entire bible, or its just the actual etymology in play. As a I mentioned originally, the meaning is historically recorded as changing over time as a cognate. The same way gay used to mean happy, but now it means happy or youre a fag. So I can say, it's gay to be gay.

For 6 and 8 however. There are two different way the elohim has been used. There are distinct references to elohim as a plural and as a singular. God talking about other beings, using a similar word in a different context. For all intents and purposes, the direct letter for letter, yes, it's the same.

Interestingly though, this specific verse in the very way you are looking at it, is used against the jews by Jesus in the new testament.

He uses it as an example that the written law, when taken literally as it is written and out of context, is full of shit.

John 10, Jesus tells some jews that he is gods son and they take offence at that. Understanding that these jews are supposed to be teachers of the law.

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—

36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Essentially, in pslam 82, it is written as you are trying to explain it and Jesus says they're fools for trying to claim he can't be the son of God, because letter by letter, anyone teacher of the law could be God's out of context.

So. Which all of that, you being half right and half wrong, where to now?

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I never denied that etymology changes over time. The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew makes it clear that elohim meant God by the first century AD. However it was not so prior to that, when the Old Testmant was written. Therefore many instances of elohim are probably referring to archons rather than God.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Many? As part of this little exercise I went through about a hundred or so of the 2000+ times the direct hebrew word elohim was used. once, it was used as for something other than God and the context was very clear on this. This sort of sits in line with the king james note:

Elohim is found 2,606 times in the King James Version. It is almost always translated as God or god(s) or some other divine being(s). There are 5 times the word is rendered as judge(s); 2 times as great; 2 times as mighty and once as exceedingly.

I would say your "many" is actually "effectively none". 0.38%. More people die from covid injections than this and every one still doesn't care.

I didn't mention it before because it was personal preference, but I'll just use this as a sort of cherry on my own cake. I never actually use the psalms or proverbs books for my studies. They are merely poems and songs by a man who was put into power by God. While they are God inspired, they have almost no value in history, prophecy or expectancy of God's followers. I only see them as encouragement.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I don't see any book as inerrant, inspired means inspired, and never were any promises to preserve a written word made, much less a canon of holy books. People act like God just dropped the Bible out of the sky.

But because elohim's usage changed, so did its interpretation. The KJV was made in the 1600s, long after elohim meant "God". That does not mean it meant that when it was written. Another thing you have to remember is dishonest scribes removing what contradicted mainstream theology. We know of at least one such case, where a scribe changed elohim to Israel, making the passage nonsensical.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Many of the books are direct writings from God, whether you believe in the prophets or angels or not. These are instructions and descriptions of what is to occur. The pslams and proverbs and the love book, are just songs. They are not important to historical events or writings for the purposes of Gods direction and expectations.

Israels literal definition is in reference to God himself. Israel also is the name of a person. The name of a nation. The name of a different nation. The name of blood line. The name for a covenant from God. Guess they are all wrong, because words are only allowed to have one meaning and if that ever changes, then every one is wrong. I have read many issues about various english translations and such of the bible and when you consider context, the result is always clear. I think there has been one or two times when I have come across something that has been nonsensical. And in these areas, it was completely irrelevant to what was going on. In one of these cases, when you read the entire passage, the context corrects what is being said.

Honestly, do what you want. Think what you want. Im starting to go into circles now. Believe what you want, hate and discredit the bible all you want. Find holes when there really isnt any. I think I've invested enough time here.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Deuteronomy 32:8 was modified.

When the Most High apportioned the nations as an inheritance, when he divided up humankind, he established the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of elohim.

To

When the Most High apportioned the nations as an inheritance, when he divided up humankind, he established the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel.

We are very lucky to have caught this. The vast majority of non-altered readings are completely destroyed. And even though the prophets are revelation from God, we don't know if that prophet paraphrased and misinterpreted what was revealed to them, nor do we know for certain what changes the scribes made after the fact (and believe me there are a lot).

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You have to be joking. What is the next verse?

  1. For the Lord’s portion is his people,Jacob his allotted inheritance.

He is literally talking about the clans.

Remember the days of old; consider the generations long past.Ask your father and he will tell you, your elders, and they will explain to you.

LOL, there is no difference in meaning of those two lines. Sons of God, or the sons of the covenant with God. The context is the inheritance ordained by God. You could write "sons of abraham", "sons of adam" "sons of the chosen people" "sons of jacob" "grand sons of isaac". The context is of the covenant of the 12 tribes. I have already mentioned, that word Israel also refers to the covenant of israel. Which, is also the covenant of God.

All I know for certain, is that this is retarded. And my patience is at its peak. Because:

7Remember the days of old; consider the generations long past. Ask your father and he will tell you, your elders, and they will explain to you. 8When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, when he divided all mankind, he set up boundaries for the peoples according to the number of the sons of Israel. b 9For the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance. 10In a desert land he found him, in a barren and howling waste. He shielded him and cared for him; he guarded him as the apple of his eye, 11like an eagle that stirs up its nest and hovers over its young, that spreads its wings to catch them and carries them aloft. 12The Lord alone led him; no foreign god was with him.

HI IS LITERALLY TALKING ABOUT ISRAEL THE MAN HIMSELF. And putting into introspect, the tribes that were made from Israel.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

For the Lord’s portion is his people,Jacob his allotted inheritance.

Do you know that "the Lord" is a modification by your translation? Do you know that it is censoring what is really there, Yahoweh? It is saying the nation's were divided according to the sons of elohim, of which he is one, and he gets Israel.

[–]Anman 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

REALLY? WOW! I DIDNT KNOW! I was under the impression that words God, with a capital, and the Lord with a capital and that Yahweh or any of its english representations, did not mean the same thing. Shit, this is why I never understood a single thing every time I read the bible. God, the Lord and Yahweh, are all different things. Thanks so much for clearing that up.

Do you know what it means to be HOLY?

Ezekiel 39:25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will now restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on all the people of Israel, and I will be zealous for my holy name.

other translations:

I jealously guard my holy reputation!

I will be jealous for my holy name.

I am zealous because of The Name of my holiness

will be jealous for the sake of my holy name.

I'll be zealous for my own reputation and for my holiness.

Deuteronomy 28:58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the LORD your God—

True holiness, can not be and is not allowed to be fathomed by mankind. We are even instructed to fear his name. To the point where:

Exodus 33:20, “He [God] said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.’”

If you have respect for the holiness of God and fear any direct connection with him and want to avoid ever using his most holy name in vain, you will never use it. It is why almost all translations (not just in english) say God, or the Lord, or the LORD your God, instead of of the actual name.

Im going to just come out and ask. Do you have a learning disability? Ever participate in a head injury? Do you happen to have such a deep seated hate for God that you will just list of points off an article you read on the internet to drive a learned and zealous man of God to anger? I was angry before you even posted. And I do not see the time spent here as a total waste, but even if I might feel like it. it is good practice to go over these things every now and then. So give up, so I can go and shit post something more productive.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

"You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain" is retained from the KJV for tradition's sake. But it is not correct. In fact all the people in the Bible said it, and all the writers wrote it, because it was not prohibited until the second-temple period, when Jesus only said it outside of Judea so they wouldn't stone him to death. That's because the correct translation is "you shall not use the name of Yahoweh for falsehood." That is, don't use it for trickery or deceit or scams or false flagging or to justify evil, like the redactors of the Torah and other books did, just as he said about them, "Look, the false pen of scribes makes [Yahoweh's law] into falsehood!". But the world and the archons do not want us to call on that name, because "everyone who calls on the name of Yahoweh will be saved," who redeemed us from the curse of the law of the gods of this world by taking the curse for us, "cursed is everyone who hangs on a pole," so that "the just will live in his faith."