Ponder this: There are so many violent shows, thousands, of which depict muslims murdering people but flip it; imagine a show, just one, where Jewish Likdnik supremacists murder muslims? A show depicting this would be shunned and would never air.

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

So all those "nice muslims" taking over neighborhoods in Sweden and torching streetfuls of cars in the night are all made up stories?

All those "nice muslims" that are preventing non-muslims from circulating in THEIR OWN HOME STREETS and imposing Sharia law everywhere are being kind?

I am sorry my dude, but you are drinking the koolaid. Yes, some muslims are relatively civilized. When solo among whole crowds of "strangers"... or is it VILE INFIDELS?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yes, some muslims are relatively civilized.

Well, if some Muslims are civilized, Islam must not be as malicious as it is made out to be. I never had Islam pushed on me (at least successfully), I chose it because of the rhetorical complexity of the Quran and my relationship to that complexity. I can tell you quite confidently that the Quran is not malicious, you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get a malicious outcome from the Quranic canon. Now, this doesn't mean there aren't deep cultural problems within Islamic societies which are quite often religious in nature to some extent at least and are almost unanimously sourced to Islamic apocrypha (aka hadith). You're entitled to your beliefs but I'd urge you to look at this issue with a bit more nuance. When trying to refute an idea, I'd suggest you find the smartest person advocating for that idea and argue with him. Refute his ideas in good faith instead of going for the arguments which are easy to make and "win". I think that is an important strategy regardless of what you're arguing or talking about.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

RELATIVELY civilized. I am sure some muslims don't practice much. The better muslims. I don't care about what's written in the book. I care about what its practicioners do. They destroy the world. It's bad that they do so. And they have that religion. If it were truly about "fighting evil" they wouldn't try to destroy civilization.

What you are saying is akin to "Catholic clergy is fine because the Bible speaks of doing good." While in fact it does, but that doesn't prevent the Catholic clergy from being a pedophile, homosexual mafia of money laundering and other horrendous crimes.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

"Catholic clergy is fine because the Bible speaks of doing good."

I have no problem with Catholicism either. The Bible speaks of doing good and they're Christian. I'm only being slightly facetious here ;)

Seriously though, abuse of power happens in every institution that gains power, that isn't unique to Catholicism.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You speak of "conflating" the religion itself with its practitioners. That's my point: you seem to conflate the practitioners with the religion. We use opposite associative directions. But it was said: "you will know them by their fruit"... So these MUSLIM SAVAGES might not be MUSLIM SAVAGES BECAUSE of their religion directly. Maybe it's the Muslim clergy abusing its power and radicalizing these "poor victims of brainwashing" or however else you want to slice it.

The end result is the same: We still have hordes of muslim savages descending on the civilized world and destroying it.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

We still have hordes of muslim savages descending on the civilized world and destroying it.

I said as much as I'm going to say. If you want to look at the world through this lens, it is your God given right but I am firmly convinced it is not accurate and if you honestly try to understand what I'm saying with an open mind, you'll understand where I'm coming from when you fact check me. Most people in America own guns and most of them are Christian. Does this make gun ownership a Christian principle? You decide.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree with Christian gun ownership. Some people plain love guns, it's their thing. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. A car can also be a lethal weapon, and is often used as such. Does owning a car spell ill intent? Either way, in the USA the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution offers a way for citizens to prevent tyranny. Is it working? Nope. But it's a glimmer of hope, and has nothing to do with the question.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh yeah when it is good white Christians who own the guns, no problem. When Palestinians throw some rocks, that is terrorism.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh man, don't get me started on the subhuman parasites that are Jews and their innumerable crimes against all peoples, as well as their revolting genocide of their fellow semitic Palestinians. That's a whole other question.

And yes it's OK for Christians to own guns, as they have been indoctrinated into a faith that makes them relatively peaceful and respectful of human life.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You speak of "conflating" the religion itself with its practitioners. That's my point: you seem to conflate the practitioners with the religion

Nah man, you have a very narrow minded approach to this. No one group or individual represents Islam, every group and individual claiming to be Muslim collectively does. It is difficult to parse through but minority opinions count! There is a lot of internal diversity within the religion, you have to look at the nuances and differences among the various groups identifying as Muslims. If you get two Muslims together, they won't even agree on the method of prayer, religion is open ended and there aren't clear answers. The only thing Muslims ever agree on is the importance of the Quran. Here you are on the outside with pretty much no knowledge of the culture, the Quran or the problems and you think you understand it well. That is fine but you make the most malicious assumption about what others hold sacred. That is also your right but I'd urge you to just check the ego a bit and at least try to understand where I'm coming from.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, yes of course individuality is important. But it is also the case that most cultures have very little individuality, outside the white european ones.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

So all those "nice muslims" taking over neighborhoods in Sweden and torching streetfuls of cars in the night are all made up stories? All those "nice muslims" that are preventing non-muslims from circulating in THEIR OWN HOME STREETS and imposing Sharia law everywhere are being kind?

We're conflating a bunch of issues here I think which have nothing to do with religion. When you take in a bunch of refugees from a literal war zone, they come with a lot of baggage and mental health issues, don't you think? I think they pretty obviously do and that plays a much bigger role than anything else with any problematic behavior you may see from people taken in from war zones or who are fleeing desperate situations. When Muslim doctors and engineers immigrate, they don't cause any problems and are productive members of society and they represent the vast majority of Muslims immigrating to the West.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

OK so those muslims aren't savages BECAUSE of their religion, they are simply so, for other reasons, and their religion is just an innocent bystander. It is simply circumstantial that these savages all have that same religion. Color me doubtful.

OK so maybe they are more inclined to violence than most other people... And they happen to be muslim and it's not their fault and it's not the Quran's fault if they take it "the wrong way" because of their proclivity for violence.

Yeah, no.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It is simply circumstantial that these savages all have that same religion. Color me doubtful.

Well, you also have Jewish savages... and Christian savages. Every group, whether religious or not, is going to have some criminals. You really can't blame the group without a higher burden of proof. We all use Saidit. If a Saidit user goes out and shoots someone tomorrow, are all Saidit users potential murderers? Either way, religion is a very broad phenomenon which crosses racial and ethnic barriers along with even cultural ones sometimes. Religious culture is often localized to various different factors including ethnicity, location and a variety of other things. A Muslim from Canada is going to think and behave very different from a Muslim from Africa and they are all going to think and behave differently from Muslims from elsewhere. Often times, cultural problems are localized to region, ethnicity and a variety of other factors, you can't just boil it down to "Muslims are evil because they have an evil religion".

It is simply circumstantial that these savages all have that same religion. Color me doubtful.

Yikes, I think you've been watching a little bit too much mainstream media for me to get through to you. Like I pointed out earlier, most Muslims who immigrate to the West are doctors and engineers, they contribute to society otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to come. I don't see how that is savagery. I mean I'm still engaging with this conversation respectfully even though I consider it quite insulting. How is that savagery? A lot do come from more poorer backgrounds. For you to think of them as savages is one thing but I think it is unfair to blame religion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

OK well here's a little kicker for you: I have not absorbed a single piece of mainstream media in... well over 5 years. It might be 10 years, I don't know, other than the occasional, obligatory movie with wifey.

So, let's take an example, this nice 60-year-old muslim with his new 9-year-old wife, that he's going to rape while she screams her head off: https://www.bitchute.com/video/WtSlTnQ83Hq5/

You're telling me his being a Muslim HAS NOTHING TO DO with the heinous crime he's committing? That's only "his ethnic traditions" and has nothing to do with his religion huh? OK, let's say I believe you. Just imagine now that he's a Christian, living in a Christian land. He does the same, because it's "his ethnic tradition". What's going to happen to him?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

You're telling me his being a Muslim HAS NOTHING TO DO with the heinous crime he's committing?

Didn't say this, you're putting words in my mouth. Learn to pick up on a bit of nuance if you want to talk about complex subject matter. I said religion obviously plays a role but it is never as simple religion causing these people to become violent. The primary sources, namely the Quran, is just simply not malicious, or is just as malicious as the Bible. Religion also is localized to different regions, this much is fact. Christianity in Africa looks different from Christianity in Australia

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

So what's your "Islam is a religion of peace" explanation for all the little girls forcibly married - RAPED - by their muslim husbands? For the women forced to obey their husbands and forced to cover themselves as if it were a shameful thing to be a woman? Are we doing a "well it's a complex issue, let's not talk about THAT particular one, let's focus on something else"?

Dude, I realize my tone is confrontational. I realize it's difficult to talk with me about these things. But I think if you state your case clearly, we will discover TRUTH. That's worth a lot of trouble, don't you agree?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

When you start ripping the veils off nuns, then you can come tell me about how terrible the veil is when worn for religious purposes. Either way, I don't think it is worth it to keep engaging here, you don't refute anything I say, you just keep throwing more malicious accusations and shifting the goal post. What point is there in responding?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I refute your "religion of peace" argument with evidence to the contrary. Then you reply "well these are complex issues, you have to consider some of these people aren't doctors, they're poor, they have vast ethnic differences" and so on. Who's shifting the goal posts?

I'm posting about a 60-year-old BUYING a 9-year-old wife he's going to RAPE, asking you if he could do so as a Christian, and what was your answer? Hm... That's right, a lot of nothing. Good job. Are you a jewish muslim perchance?

And now you went on the offensive about nuns wearing veils. I think they CHOSE to become nuns, knowing full well they would wear a veil. Yeah, goal posts huh? EDIT: you're comparing a freaking HEAD SCARF to, in many cases wearing something that hides them entirely.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I'm posting about a 60-year-old BUYING a 9-year-old wife he's going to RAPE, asking you if he could do so as a Christian, and what was your answer? Hm...

I don't know if you know how crime works, but Christians are capable of rape too. That is Arab culture to some extent man, Arab Christians do that too. I am definitely convinced that those practices have a higher correlation with education, wealth and culture. You don't see these problems pop up in the well educated South Asian Muslim populations. Even polygamy has a severe stigma across South Asian Muslims, it instantly leaves you a social pariah and isn't considered acceptable even though it is legally permitted. Once again, a lot of the problematic claims are sourced to apocrypha, in this case about Aisha through her own narration allegedly according to Bukhari. It is important to consider that Shia Muslims do not hold Aisha or her narrations in high regard. Aisha herself was like a massive political leader, kind of like a Benazir Bhutto of her time, and there are concerns among Shias that her supporters used religion as a means to reinforce problematic cultural problems through the Hadith apocrypha.