We live in a society

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[–]SundogsPlace 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

I'll call it, Leftist Self Defeating Propaganda. Forget costs, a scorpion vaccine in Mexico, $100, same exact vaccine in the good ole USA, something like $26,000.

See the scam? Someone's going into anaphylactic shock, they either die, or get something, anything, in this case just several thousand percent more than the original profit margin. Keep your crap authoritarianism, I mean socialism, I apologize :)

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why not revert to the social-capitalism of the early 20th century US that was so successful?

Instead we've gone back to the robber baron capitalism of the guilded age.

[–]SundogsPlace 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm strictly free market. There are some things I think should be socialized, like natural resources in many instances. Oil, and natural gas are great examples, they drill a well in one area, then pollute the entire area underground, as well above ground with pollutants; where's the compensation for those suffering from the effects? To further that thought, oil, usually when disaster strikes, the 'fix', is always socialized, but the profit is kept private.

For things like oil, I could see companies renting a patch of land, or paying back like what's done in Alaska.

Another reason I'm not for organized big medicine, or socialized, is I feel treatments are too restrictive. Allopathic medicine treats the part; basically changing the proverbial oil, or replace the part; where by (W)holistic treats the entire body as a complete unit; which I lean towards for myself. I think if it were socialized, allopathic would 'rule the day, by enforcement via color of law'; in turn potentially destroying other less toxic holistic treatments.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. It's easy to forget that we have been brainwashed into a different notion of what free economics actually means..

[–]Alduin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All of our economic problems can be traced back to Nixon taking us off the gold backed dollar in the 70s. Before that everything was peachy and it just got worse and worse.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problems started with the creation of the Fed. Private banks rule the nation, and the citizens pay them interest for every dollar created. The biggest scam ever.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

need price controls as well. also need more doctors so their average salary goes down. AMA is a guild.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Doctors are not overpaid. The healthcare vendor system is overpaid.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

both overpaid. the reason doctors are overpaid tho is supply and demand, not that many of them, high need for their services. AMA only allows so many students into med schools each year, they need to expand it. also hospitals are in collusion, need to nationalize them along with universal single payer

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are also paid because they sacrifice their entire youth by dedicating it to medicine.

  • You need straight A's in college (sacrifice 18-23)
  • Dedication to med school (sacrifice 23-27)
  • Tortured abuse of residency for $40K/year and +80 hours of work/week (sacrifice 27- 29/31)
  • Fellowship (optional) not so bad, but $45K/yr when you could make more

When all is said and done they've committed an addtional 8-12 continuous years to medicine before they start making money.
On top of that they have about $250,000 in debt (unless their parents have that kind of money collecting dust).

This is not a trivial sacrifice.

[–]Alduin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You think nationalizing them will make them less in collusion? Why would you think that?

[–]Alduin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The healthcare vendor system is monopolistic because of regulatory capture. They have more of a free market in Mexico, which is why Americans keep going over there for cheaper care.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Rockefeller medicine ruined healthcare.

[–]Alduin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Price controls don't work. Look at rent costs before and after price controls for easy examples of what happens.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

work great. just need to expand em. Guessing you mean rent in NYC? Just some of them are rent controlled and grandfathered in. That rent is too damn high guy was right.

[–]Alduin 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean everywhere price controls are implemented. Watch what happens in Oregon. It's going to be a disaster.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they'll be fine the only problem is the rich who own corporations make less money when they have to sell stuff for less but who cares

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

a scorpion vaccine

Despite scorpion toxin being useful in vaccines, I think you meant "antivenom".

To address your actual point, wouldn't the government paying for the medicines mean that the profit margins go down? Because they'd be bulk-buying and able to order from the people charging less evil prices for life-saving medicines, in bulk?

I totally agree that they're charging too much, just because they can – which is another reason I support the abolition of medicine patents. Money from taxing medicines – which would be cheaper with actual competition, could go towards funding public-domain development. Or another, better plan.

[–]SundogsPlace 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't support the abolition of any patents; I'm not a Communist, and doing so will eliminate motivation to invent, or research cures, and treatments. The scorpion vaccine is just one I know of where by once it hits the USA's oligarchy of control, the price sky rockets.

I'm actually anti Big Pharma, Big AMA, and Allopathic medicine. It's a total crock of horse crap. There's many accounts of when doctors strike, the death rates go down; now the debate there, is whether it's due to people not dying from elective surgeries, or seriously from the doctors not working.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Eliminating patents will eliminate motivation to invent, or research the kinds of thing that pharmaceutical companies can profit from. There are classes of medicines that they don't research at all, because they can't profit from them before the patent expires. Replacing the patents with another motivation, e.g. funding independent research groups, is conceivably a viable strategy.

You've got what seem to me to be contradictory beliefs.

[–]SundogsPlace 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not the patent per se, it's the regulations that keep many people out of the game in the first place. It's the governmental authorities also blocking alternative competition to the medical industrial complex.

Delete the patents, whoopie! They still have their own internal departments steering how the drugs are used, or approved. Take Ru-486, originally designed, and created for cancer; the drug had amazing abilities to stop cell replication-cancer growth....

What do they do with the drug??? it's the morning after pill.

All you do by removing patents, is remove any motivation.

And on this note, just because someone has a 'degree', a 'doctorate', or more, does that really mean their qualified? Absolutely not; we can hash through countless examples of malpractice, and even bad drugs that were pushed for no reason; Seroquel is a great example. The man behind this drug, and the dangers associated had manipulated it into for a short time, a drug handed out like SSRI's, or Statins.

bah.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for explaining. (I hate being naïve.)