Niko House: "Jimmy Dore Discusses Cornel West Interview, Trump/Biden, Identity Politics & More!"

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[–]ageingrockstar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think Jimmy is falling into the same trap of "Vote blue no matter who". But instead it's "Vote 3rd party no matter who".

He says he's going to still vote for Cornel West (as does the host). And they talk about still loving and respecting the man. But West's an obvious dud, a narcissist, a hypocrite. Jimmy points out his various failings (good) but then couches it as he's just trying to help Cornel improve his campaign and will still vote for him. No, you're not dealing with a child here or a student you're teaching that you want to help be a better person and who you still love despite their failings. You're talking about a grown man who is running for a position of tremendous power. If they have shown dire failings and personal faults then you withdraw your support. You don't go, oh well, I'll still vote for them, because I want to vote for a third party. If there are no good candidates, including 3rd party candidates, then you withhold your vote.

[–]captainramen🇺🇸🛠️ MAGA Communist 🛠️🇺🇸 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The dynamic is a bit different when voting 3rd party, because they have no chance of winning. The point there is to secure federal funding for the next round.

In any case what does it matter? We're not going to fix this country by voting.

[–]ageingrockstar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In any case what does it matter? We're not going to fix this country by voting.

I largely agree however I think there's still value in voting for genuinely good candidates ('good' being as each voter determines for themselves). When you have strong reservations and misgivings about a candidate then I think that's a clear sign that they're not someone you should vote for. Good on Jimmy for putting Cornel under thorough investigation (both for himself and his viewership) and showing up Cornel's various failings but I don't understand why he's not taking the obvious next step of saying, sorry, can't support this guy, he doesn't qualify as one of the rare, few politicians who it's really worth getting behind.

[–]captainramen🇺🇸🛠️ MAGA Communist 🛠️🇺🇸 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

but I don't understand why he's not taking the obvious next step of saying, sorry, can't support this guy, he doesn't qualify as one of the rare, few politicians who it's really worth getting behind

Because it leaves but one conclusion. The system cannot be saved.

Look Jimmy is a Social Democrat at the end of the day and he doesn't want to go there. He can't go there.

But hey if Democracy is on the Ballot then voting against it is a legitimate choice.

WoTB is mainly old school lefties who would be the core of the New Deal coalition. Haz said something great on stream last night. It might have been specifically tailored for you: FDR was based but ultimately failed. We will honor FDR by burning down the system he built and rebuilding it from scratch.

[–]ageingrockstar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Because it leaves but one conclusion. The system cannot be saved.

You're saying that voting for Trump is a way to bring down the system? Interesting analysis if so.

It's clear that the 'Deep State' very actively does not want him to be president again, so that's a point in favour of your argument (if that's yr argument). My (not highly informed) view is that Trump showed little real effect in 'draining the swamp' in his first term and I'm dubious that he'll have much effect in doing more if he gets a second term. But maybe he'll help cause them to self-destruct, i.e. blow themselves and 'the system' up? So maybe he's a catalyst? I don't know, just trying to understand your argument.

[–]captainramen🇺🇸🛠️ MAGA Communist 🛠️🇺🇸 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can't find the tweet right now but one of our comrades said something like

'MAGA is nothing without Trump' = Idealism

'Trump is nothing without MAGA' = Materialism

You can substitute liberalism for idealism and socialism/communism for materialism if you want. What I'm getting at is, we're using him.

It's almost like Julius Caesar's situation. He too pissed off the establishment by being a fake-ish populist, and when the Populares lost the Civil War, the Optimates proscribed them. Caesar's life was spared by a bribe. I think at that moment he decided to burn it all down.

My (not highly informed) view is that Trump showed little real effect in 'draining the swamp'

Yet, we almost had a revolution on Jan 6, except those retards forgot to bring their guns. If they did would the swamp have been drained? I think so

But maybe he'll help cause them to self-destruct, i.e. blow themselves and 'the system' up? So maybe he's a catalyst?

Nailed it.

They will soy the fuck out and really crank up the repression. The street violence from the fascist storm brigades like ANTIFA/BLM will return only it will be much worse, now that Blood Tribe and Patriot Front are in the mix.

Eventually the American people will have had enough.

[–]EddieC 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

 
u/captainramen

We're not going to fix this country by voting.

 
What if I were to tell you it is absolutely possible
but first we must broaden the spectrum of discussion:

  • let's not restrict 'voting' to just politics
    -- let's cover also media, economics, money
     
  • let's not restrict 'politics' to just third partys & indirect (political) "democracy" -- there's also direct (political) democracy

 
"What are you talking about?"

 
To cut to the chase, see this and this
If you are interested in more details, see this and this

 
Do you see what i mean by broadening our discussion on 'voting'?
Do you also see that these are Direct Change(s) that everyone can do themselves?

 
Now, of course, there is a long way to get to real actual change and it would involve much more than just making some check marks but here's the overall roadmap:

 
First, a mind shift to Direct Change - individually, then aggregatively
Next, societal value shift
Finally, real structural change

 
cc: u/ageingrockstar
 

[–]rondeuce40DC Is Wakanda For Assholes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hard to disagree with Jimmy after he pointed out Dr. West's flawed ideas to his face and Cornell just got agitated because he was being challenged. I think we all wish the whole thing could have been more civil between the two of them, but you can look at it as a positive that the two of them were so emotional about it. Seemed like Jimmy was trying to steer West in the right direction and he was having none of it. Too early to write off his campaign but unless there is some course correction, it might as well be dead in the water. Peter Daou is not a good look either.

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jimmy (paraphrased): you can get everyone on board if your message isn't black or white and left or right, but right or wrong

Cornel West (not paraphrased): empire, capitalism, white supremacy, male supremacy, homophobia, transphobia!

 

One is talking about the politics of addition, the other is virtue signaling by microdividing constituencies. Which one is running for president?

 

A few timestamps:

24:54 Niko: "I haven't heard him say 'Brother Trump' yet"

28:52 Brie's conversation with Jimmy's best friends, Kyle & Krystal

33:44 Niko: "He actually assured both RBN and myself he has zero plans on endorsing Biden... and I believe him"

36:43 Tucker vs Anderson Cooper, Tucker endorsing Anya Parampil's book

55:17 Niko: "There's a lot of conservatives that tweet shit about black people on twitter all day because it gets them a bunch of impressions. I'm not as worried about them! They're not afraid to talk to black people, and challenge black people, or have those conversations with black people. It's the neoliberals, the white neoliberals, who will literally try to erase black people, that I am concerned with."

[–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Comments:

@amberhelms520 1 day ago (edited)

Hi guys, conservative here. Just wanted to let you all know that I would have never in a million years thought I would support any left wing policies, until I started listening to Jimmy Dore in 2016. Just kind of a testament to how he’s right about messaging in order to organize along class lines. I’ve even found myself being less pro cop and more sympathetic to anti cop talking points. I’ve started to believe in Medicare for all, and believe both the democrats and republicans are equally terrible. Also, I listen to Sabby all the time and RBN. Who would have thought from a conservative. Lol

@alvaroLguevara 20 hours ago

Thanks for your candor and admission.

@riversandroots 6 hours ago

Topsy turvy world. Life long lefty here, considering voting conservative next election in Canada. Only conservatives seem to care about civil rights now. So wierd.

@vimanaboy 5 hours ago

@riversandroots my exact experience and perception as well.

@jpx08 2 minutes ago

Welcome aboard!

@kirbymccormack 1 day ago

Remember when Liberals were ANTI war., PRO union, PRO working class, and pro debate? My family has lost it's way.

[–]Maniak🥃😾[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Another pack of good points and back&forth, the kind that would have been nice to see in that original interview if West had been up to it.

And yet again, waiting on the morons smearing Dore as a racist for having dared to criticize and contradict West to... call Niko a racist for agreeing with Jimmy on most if not all of his criticisms.