So, what's behind the social contagion of men going trans?

submitted by QueenBread from (self.TumblrInAction)

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[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Women are allowed to do both manly and girly things. Imagine what happens if a man does anything the least bit unmanly.

[–]QueenBread[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Women are allowed to do both manly and girly things.

Only a man would speak like this, not having any idea about what it's like to be a woman. I've had gender dysphoria all my life precisely for thinking and behaving in a way that is not "girly".

Also, where's the men not allowed to be unmanly? Men in drag are literally the most celebrated.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Well, I'll say this. Women definitely are punished for not acting womanly, you're right about that. But it's not even close to the opposite, at least on a systemic scale. I know some female social circles can be incredibly mean to those who don't fit in.

Also, that's not gender dysphoria. That's internalized misogyny, one of the many reasons people mistakenly transition only to find themselves trying to detrans later. It works both ways. Drag is "celebrated" precisely because it's seen as "queer" and exotic. Whereas women wearing any type of clothes is just normal.

[–]QueenBread[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Being allowed to wear pants and have short hair is not the equality win you think it is. Pants aren't inherently masculine, and in fact, pants for women usually are made to highlight their butts, while men's pants certainly don't. So.... a woman wearing pants and having short hair is STILL dressed in a feminine way, just like a Scottish with a kilt or a Japanese samurai in a kimono are still definitely male-coded.

Both genders have it hard if they defy stereotyped gender roles, but if a man defies conventional masculinity he is hated by many other men...... if a woman defies conventional masculinity she is hated by many other men and women.

Many girls, at least a good 50% of them, don't have innate femininity in their movements or behaviour. They learn them as they grow up. When I was in middle school I had excellent grades and I rocked it at the annual school theater performance, but nobody really cared, while my mediocre friend with mediocre school grades was constantly praised by the teachers because she improvised a sexualized pop music group with other classmates. When I cosplay, if I wear some complex badass outfit I am appreciated, but if I wear some simple random skimpy bikini I get more attention.

Girls eventually learn to fit in. I did, to the point that when I told a friend of mine about my gender dysphoria, he didn't believe me. He sees me with long nails, make up, pretty clothes, and he doesn't believe I'm dysphoric. Well, some of us learn to perform femininity, perhaps because we aren't brave enough to keep defying gender norms when our childhood teaches us it's not rewarded. Doesn't mean we like it.

Sorry about this personal rant!

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

if a woman defies conventional masculinity she is hated by many other men and women

Is she? Men only seem to care about men not acting like men. In fact most men would be thrilled if women acted less "girly", and in fact that's probably the biggest reason they still have any anti-woman bias. Women act like that to please their girl friends, not their husbands and employers. I think people try to enforce their own gender's roles, and this comes from tribalism being instilled at an early age.

Many girls, at least a good 50% of them, don't have innate femininity in their movements or behaviour. They learn them as they grow up.

From the other girls. Because they'll be relentlessly bullied if they don't. How is that the fault of men?

When I cosplay, if I wear some complex badass outfit I am appreciated

At least you're appreciated. You know what would happen if I did the equivalent? I would probably be killed.

but if I wear some simple random skimpy bikini I get more attention

Those are designed to make you look "sexy", of course it's going to get you attention.

Girls eventually learn to fit in. I did, to the point that when I told a friend of mine about my gender dysphoria, he didn't believe me. He sees me with long nails, make up, pretty clothes, and he doesn't believe I'm dysphoric. Well, some of us learn to perform femininity, perhaps because we aren't brave enough to keep defying gender norms when our childhood teaches us it's not rewarded. Doesn't mean we like it.

Again, definitely not gender dysphoria, and it's not men making you act like that. I don't know any women who actually like acting like a doll, no matter how much they pretend to; it's some sort of cult-like initiation to join "the girls". If you had gender dysphoria you'd be praying to switch sexes whether you like their "roles" or not.

[–]QueenBread[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Men only seem to care about men not acting like men. In fact most men would be thrilled if women acted less "girly"

BULLSHIT. Let me tell you again: COMPLETE BULLSHIT. I have first-hand experience with this. No, buddy, men do NOT like women who don't act feminine. And men do NOT like nerd women either. They may like the anime nerd girl, but in reality, if a woman is in their hobby, they tend to feel awkward about it. Sometimes even challenged.

So, quit that crap. You have no idea how much tomboy nerds HATE IT when coomers say they wish they'd have a nerdy tomboy girlfriend, except they don't.

At least you're appreciated. You know what would happen if I did the equivalent? I would probably be killed.

Ah yes, so oppressed. Male cosplayers don't exist.

Again, definitely not gender dysphoria, and it's not men making you act like that. I don't know any women who actually like acting like a doll, no matter how much they pretend to; it's some sort of cult-like initiation to join "the girls". If you had gender dysphoria you'd be praying to switch sexes whether you like their "roles" or not.

But gender dysphoria at its core is about hating your gender role. Well, or sometimes about getting turned on by imagining yourself at the other sex?

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

And men do NOT like nerd women either.

I don't think the masses like nerds of either gender.

if a woman is in their hobby, they tend to feel awkward about it. Sometimes even challenged.

It's unusual, that's why.

You have no idea how much tomboy nerds HATE IT when coomers say they wish they'd have a nerdy tomboy girlfriend, except they don't.

No, not like that.

Ah yes, so oppressed. Male cosplayers don't exist.

But it's called cosplaying and not considered normal.

But gender dysphoria at its core is about hating your gender role.

No it isn't. That's what the sexist TRA-controlled media says, and if you believe that it's no wonder you hate trans people. No. Remember how you felt when you started puberty, how you were scared whether you'd like how your body and even mind is changing? Well, imagine if it really did end up not working for you. Imagine that feeling never ever went away. Imagine the hormones you're getting just don't jive with you. And imagine you've been wanting opposite-sex features your whole life, often before even realizing they're sexually dimorphic traits. That's dysphoria. It would exist regardless of society, sexism, gender roles, etc. The people who say otherwise and claim it's not an illness are "queer" snowflakes who want an excuse to be trans so they can be special, and not be an "evil" normal person.

[–]QueenBread[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

No it isn't. That's what the sexist TRA-controlled media says, and if you believe that it's no wonder you hate trans people. No. Remember how you felt when you started puberty, how you were scared whether you'd like how your body and even mind is changing? Well, imagine if it really did end up not working for you. Imagine that feeling never ever went away. Imagine the hormones you're getting just don't jive with you. And imagine you've been wanting opposite-sex features your whole life, often before even realizing they're sexually dimorphic traits. That's dysphoria.

Yeah, that's exactly how I've felt, even BEFORE puberty. Since I was a little child I always wanted to be male.

So, fuck off. I know your stupid mind works in labels and thus can't comprehend that a woman can be feminine and hate the idea of transexuality - but still be heavily dysphoric.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

That's not gender roles, stop moving the goalposts

[–]QueenBread[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Dipshit, gender roles are EXACTLY about that. Are you going to keep telling me I'm not dysphoric because I'm not a fatso who dyed her hair blue and called herself "they/them"? Stupid fuck.

[–]wylanderuk 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Its probably the only exercise they get...